GH/KH/PH and Zebra Plecs

gtp

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Jul 9, 2006
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Ok, after some of your expert advise guys:)

Just did a test today in my Zebra tank. The PH is roughly around 6.3-6.6, the KH test amounted to 3-4 drops which I times by 10 to equal 30-40mg/l but the GH went to 10 drops, which I times by 20 to equal 200mg/l.

As far as I know the KH is pretty good for soft water, low PH fish, isn't it? The problem seems to be the GH - 200mg/l is far too high, right?

I have put some peat free-floating in a net bag in the tank (the turnover in tank is around 2000-2400lph). Will that get the GH down without any negative effects on the other parameters? I will be trying to breed them in a few weeks so want to get it sorted asap.

Thanks guys
 
Firstly, to convert the drops from both the KG and GH the multiplication factor is 17.7.

Secondly, zebras are seasonal spawners. They experience a dry and rainy season which have totally different parameters. It is he onset of the rainy season which triggers spawning.

There are major differences in the water parameters of the two seasons which incude pH, gh and temperature. In addition, the change in seasons is heralded by a barometric pressure change.

There are excellent articles on keeping and spawning zebras at both http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/ and http://www.planetcatfish.com/index.php

FYI- My spawning colony and all offspring are kept in tap water that is 7.4 pH, 6dg GH, 5dg KH and temps ranging from 83-86.

Also- this thread really should be in the Pleco forum.
 
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Firstly, to convert the drops from both the KG and GH the multiplication factor is 17.7.

Secondly, zebras are seasonal spawners. They experience a dry and rainy season which have totally different parameters. It is he onset of the rainy season which triggers spawning.

There are major differences in the water parameters of the two seasons which incude pH, gh and temperature. In addition, the change in seasons is heralded by a barometric pressure change.

There are excellent articles on keeping and spawning zebras at both http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/ and http://www.planetcatfish.com/index.php

FYI- My spawning colony and all offspring are kept in tap water that is 7.4 pH, 6dg GH, 5dg KH and temps ranging from 83-86.

Also- this thread really should be in the Pleco forum.

Hmm the test kit itself says that the drops should be times by 10 for KH and 20 for GH. Thats incorrect??

Secondly, I can't seem to find a comprehensive list of parameter changes that should occur before breeding.

Given my current set-up, what would you recommend I do to trigger spawning?
 
I should have been a bit clearer re the gh and kh conversion. The factor to convert degrees to ppm or mg/l I have always used is 17.7. Hagen uses 17.9 and has a conversion calculator here http://www.hagen.com/uk/aquatic/gh_kh_conv_cal.cfm


Try reading these:

http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4411&highlight=tds

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=273

I find TDS very confusing.

I am a bit confused by it all atm. All I know is that it took 3-4 drops on the KH and 10 drops on the GH. What does that equal? And how good/bad is is it? I'm aiming for your typical soft water, acidic setup for the Zebra's.
As for TDS - how does that relate to GH? Is there a conversion that joins the two together?

As for the changes needed when breeding...I know about the temperature decrease, but does that come with a decrease or increase of the PH? And does the water get softer or harder with that change (GH)? And the KH?

Sorry for all these questions. Been researching for the past few days on the net and its all getting a bit confusing. Would be good to hear it straight up from a Zebra pleco breeder:)
 
First off, I bought a breeding group to begin with. So for me they have just continued. However, I have also spawned various corys, farolowella vitatta, angels,bristlenose and a few others that respond to similar triggers.

The first thing is to understand how they spawn in the wild and where it is they live. They are almost on the equator in a single river. This area has basically two seasons- dry and rainy.

During the dry season river levels hit their lowest levels and their warmest temps and they will also flow at their relatively slowest rate. This means that food should be easier to find and that the water is dirtier- ie tds are higher as is the pH. The onset of the rainy season is heralded by a change in barometric pressure as storms roll in and the rains come.

Rather abruptly river parameters and conditions change. The influx of new cooler water causes current to increase and water levels to rise. The pH drops as do the TDS. And this is what triggers spawning.

TDS and GH are not the same thing, but GH is included in TDS to which other things contribute. But you can not have high GH without also having high tds and lowering gh will also lower cause TDS to drop.

To get zebras, and most other seasonal SA spawners, to get jiggy normally requires that the fish experience some semblance of seasonality. The reason I say "some semblance" is because there are no hard and fast numbers perse, but ranges that will work. And every group of fish in tanks will have its own way and the fishkeeper will have his or her own water params out of the tap.

The hardest part to spawning zebras is getting them to go the first time. Once they have, they will keep going on their own with much less work on the fishkeeper's part. They will normally spawn for a number of months and then go on hiatus for a number of months and then resume. They are seasonal after all. In tanks the seasons tend to add up to more than a 12 month year however.

So what to do to trigger them? This is an issues of ranges and trying the easiest. cheapest and least work things first.

Try using tap if its 6.8-8 pH. Know your starting GH. If its below about 5-6 degrees, you may need to raise it using additives. However, start by skipping weekly water changes to try and raise it. You can do minimal vacs and rinsing of media that is clogged and replace water removed- but try to minimize the amount of water that gets replaced. Raise the temp to 85-87 and feed the fish well on high protein foods, live is best, frozen works too. However, do mix some veggie matter in.

Skip wcs for anywhere from 2-4 weeks, though some have gone longer. Hopefully at some point after 2 weeks or so you will have a storm in the forecast. This can be rain or snow or any other barometric pressure changing event. When it hits, do a big water change, at least 50%. Now here is where I and most others part company. My experience has lead me to believe that the cooler water part is not necessary. However, it can not possibly hurt. So if you want to do it, drop the temp in the tank so its 5-8 degrees F lower. Disconnect the heater for anywhere from a few hours to overnight and then hook it back up. Also increase the flow in the tank- be sure you have flow directed across the mouths of the breeding caves.

If you are super lucky this may be enough. If it isnt you can also try doing a 25% wc every other day for a week or two.

The next line of defence requires ro or distilled water, a TDS meter and a way to control water params with additives. So try the easy way first :-)
 
Wow, ok, thats alot of information there. Thanks:)

So let me try and recap.

Dry season:

Slighly reduced water flow (I can reduce the filters and power heads slightly).
Mixture of vegtable matter, meat and frozen insects.
PH 6.5
GH (see below)
KH (see below)
Weekly 10-20% water changes (?)

How long should the dry season go on for?

Then to initiate breeding:

Maximum water flow
Higher amounts of frozen and live insect foods.
PH 6.0 (?)
GH (see below)
KH (see below)
Skip water changes, and then do a big water change when a storm hits(?) Bear in mind that in the UK storms are very infrequent.
After the big water change lower the temperature around 6f and leave overnight, and then raise back to 82f the next day (?)

How long should the rainy season go on for? 2-4 weeks, did you say?

GH/KH - this is the last part thats annoying me. I have the Nutrifin GH and KH test kit. It took 3-4 drops for the KH to change colour, and 10 drops for the GH to change colour. What does this mean? Whats the conversion ratio? Is it too hard or too soft? Is the KH enough?

Secondly, assuming I get the right GH/KH, should they both decrease or increase with the rainy season? I have a feeling that my tap water is very hard, and I know its PH is around 7.6

Lastly I have peat and I have a Blackwater tonic, for 'acid loving fish' which can lower the PH, as well as do alot of other things, supposedly inducing the fish to breed too. Can these come in handy?

Thanks for your time mate;)
 
Ok, I have just had a look on the internet and as far as I can make out about GH its:

Each drop = one DH (degree of hardness). Each degree = 18mg/l. Therefore 10 drops in the test tube = 10 DH = 180mg/l (180 ppm) approx

Is that correct?

About KH:

You say its the same conversion as with GH?

So it lets say it took 4 drops. 4 drops = 4 x 18 = 72mg/l (72 ppm).

Is that correct? There is also an English conversion which says to times it by 14.3, as opposed to 18 (American), so this would mean its 4 x 14 = 56 mg/l (56ppm)?

Or am I way off?
 
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