Gill Disease??

WaterBaby

WaterBaby

Senior Member with Senior Moments
Sep 23, 2002
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Florence, New Jersey
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I'm a little worried about one of my Red Eyed Tetras. The gill covers, or operculum (yes, I had to look this word up in a google search) are for a lack of a better term, flared out.

I first noticed it last week. The actual gills under the covers are really not red or swollen. The edges of the covers look a little curved in. It is breathing rapidly with it's mouth open. There are no visible parasites or white patches. It is having a little difficulty eating and not as plump as the others (but is eating some). Its fins are not clamped, but it's swimming a little funny. It hangs out in the top part of the tank hidden away by the filter intake tube (although not at the surface). It's not gulping for air at the surface.

I did ask the LFS about this, and they said that it is probably some kind of bacterial gill disease, and recommended tetracycline. I did a 4 dose cycle, and have just finished. I don't know if it helped or not, but am worried about my other fish.

I did lose one other Red Eyed Tetra last month. To what, I don't know. By the time I found it, it was a little cannibalized carcass stuck to my filter intake:(. Maybe it died of the same thing??

I would appreciate any input. I did alot of surfing for this, and did read that true Gill disease is rare, and that once the gills are damaged, they don't return to normal.

Tank specs are:
6 gallon Eclipse system
3 Red Eyed Tetras
3 Corys
pH 7.0
No nitrates, ammonia,
Nitrates within normal parameters
Temp at 78 (this has been fluctuating up a little during the day, cause it's been so darned hot lately)
 
I wonder if my neon tetras suffer from the same disease if it's a disease, of course.

When I got 20 little neons four months ago they were really young. I have noticed that one fish had its right operculum damaged or something happened to it so it was deformed and did not cover the gill completely. They all seem to feel OK and I didn't bother much. The fish grew and with it, the gap in the gill became more and more obvious.

Frankly I thought it was a birth defect of some sort. It's quite likely that fish sold in LFSes are result of inbreeding with possibility of different defects.

The fish seemed healthy otherwise, eat well and grew along with others.

Not too long ago I noticed another neon had very similar defect on right operculum as well! I don't think I have missed it earlier (even though, it's not impossible). I watched the two for the last two weeks and it seems that the problem worsens.

I decided to remove the affected fish from the main tank just to be safe and inspected them closer. The operculum seemed to be "melting" and curling a little. When looking from front (mouth) I can see the operculum sticking a bit to the side. Also the "older" neon seems to have "face" distortion. Again, when looking from front, I can see that the eye on the affected side seats considerably lower than on the opposite side.

I tried to look through the net trying to find what the cause of this could be but I couldn't find anything definitive.

It looks like gills themselves are not affected. They are pink, no white spots or visible damage to them. And fish stayed active.

I'm attaching two photos of the poor things. Any ideas?

neon.jpg
 
Thanks for the pics. I wish I could take mine out of the tank for inspection, but with my luck, I'll kill the bugger. I also tried taking a few pics of him to post, but they're very fuzzy.

Your pics look to me like the gill covers are being eaten away. You can see the gills underneath (which do look a little on the red side) from a side view.

On my tetra the gill covers are covering the gills if you look from the side, but are extended away from them. If you look at the fish from the front, the gill covers look swollen away from the face, like chubby cheeks.

He wasn't like this before last week. I am now wondering, could it be gill flukes? I have noticed in the past that one or two of my cory's flipped or twisted around on the gravel on the bottom of the tank, but only a very few times (and not recently), and only when being fed. I thought that this was some kind of way to get the food from between the gravel so they could eat it.

Having searched some past posts, I came across the gill fluke thing. None of the other fish seem affected like this one. Wouldn't the original infected Cory's (if this is what it is) still be infected? Can you see gill flukes?
 
It's been a few days since the end of the 4 dose round of tetracycline, and I really can't tell if it helped or not.

The gill covers still look a little extended (now I wish I had taken a picture to start, I forgot how bad they looked before), and he still has the rapid breathing, but he is not hanging around the top of the tank anymore.

Should I have seen any kind of improvement by now? Do you think that he is permanently damaged, and it is just a matter of time before he goes to fishie heaven? I don't know how long he can go on breathing like that.... must be tiresome....
 
I'm getting concerned!

I had to bump this one to the top cause I need some opinions.

The tetra in question went to fishie heaven while I was away for the weekend....

NOW:

I am noticing that one of my julli cories is fighting going "belly up". It was not like this on Friday. It is laying on the bottom of the tank, kinda sideways and its fins are clamping.

It is not showing any signs of whatever the tetra had, but I am concerned that it may be something related... However, this is coming on suddenly.

This will be the 3rd fish I have lost (or will be losing I fear) in the past 4 months.

Does anyone have "ANY" ideas as to what is going on here. Might there be some kind of bacteria or virus in my tank, and where the heck did it come from??

Do I have to completely dismantle my tank and scrub it down? I don't have a hospital tank or another tank to put the fish if I have to clean everything. And more importantly, if it is a virus or bacteria wouldn't this be in the water, and or, biofilter? How could I re-use the water if I cleaned the tank, or would I have to cycle all over again?

I am beginnning to think that all the occupants in my tank are waiting in line for the grim reaper...... and I can't do anything to stop it..

PLEASE, SOME SUGGESTIONS...

I just checked "again" all the water parameters.
pH- 7.2
no ammonia or nitrites
nitrates 20ppm
Temp 80 degrees
 
Sounds like a typical bacterial infection. Tetracycline is primarily effective against 'gram-negative' bacteria. Try a round of maracyn, which is effective against 'gram-positive' bacteria. Could also be a true fungus, in which case try Jungle - Fungus Clear. You can use the maracyn and fungus clear together.
good luck
:)
 
Thanks Famman.

I did do a round of tetracycline a couple of weeks ago because of the red eyed tetra, and still lost it. I did not isolate the tetra, but treated the whole tank.

Are you saying to do another round of tetracycline?
 
There are plenty of fish parasites that would attack the gills and not be seen with the unaided eye.
If you or someone you know could look at the gills under a microscope b4 the fish died, maybe they could see something?
Yes, the gills could be damaged beyond repair, but that doesn't mean the causitive agent (bacteria, parasite) is gone.
If you treat with chemicals that destroy the beneficial bacteria, you will have to cycle over again. What's that recommended bacteria in a bottle called?
Sorry I can't be of more help!:(
 
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