I think you may need to research more...just one of the many articles google so thoughtfully dug up for me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2983045.stm
Gold Fish Bowl Cruel or Cool
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I think you may need to research more...just one of the many articles google so thoughtfully dug up for me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2983045.stm
Simply stating that my opinion isn't fact doesn't make your opinion a fact. If you disagree I understand but I haven't seen any scientific evidence that proves me wrong and noone has yet to provide links to such. If you can provide evidence that proves me wrong than do so. I will happily admit that I am wrong if you can prove that fish have emotion. Until then my opinion is just as much fact as yours. Like I said. Some people are just unable to accept that others have opinions that differ from their own. And fyi I am a regular member of this sight because I am a fish lover too.
I totally agree. I did say that if you are going to keep any living creature keep it healthy. I think the debate has been about the use of the word cruel and if it applies to fish. Off topic? I don't expect everyone to agree with me. In fact I know I am in a small minority on this site with that opinion. But there are a lot more people here on AC that agree with me than you realize. They just don't speak up like I usually don't because of what the debate usually turns into.
But you voted cool? How can a goldfish bowl (which is never going to be found in the 30+ gallon size mind you) be healthy for a goldfish???
I want to apologize to everyone for all the multi post. I am browsing the net from my black berry because my dsl is down. Hopefully the phone co will get a tech out here soon. I hope I have answered all the questions that were directed to me. If I missed any apologize. A phone isn't very easy to post with. Jpappy will check out that link and get back to you later if you are interested in my response.
Lupin
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- Sep 21, 2006
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I am a noob to fish keeping as well as reptiles and amphibians as many of you have probably come to realise. I will state my opinion because I am 17 and believe that our country needs its people to speak up even if its over a small issue because more and more I notice that we are becoming less and less of a democracy everyday.
I voted cruel on the basis that most bowls don't have filters and thus are not safe for fish. I know that whales are mammals but this priniciple still applies. An animal that is obviously deformed (fin curl) because of it inability to exercise properly, how cruel is that, yes it may be healthy but wouldn't it be happier in a bigger tank? Or how about the elephant at the local zoo that rocks back and forth from boredom?
I do not dispute Alans statement that everyone is entitled to their opinion I applaud that thinking, but thoughts are not fact either and I won't claim mine to be, as neither did he.
I believe that fish do have a primitive system of emotion, That they are capable of thought even if its not at a level that is understandable to us. Therfore I disagree with his statement but would otherwise like to comend him for speaking his mind and explaining his thoughts.
I challenge his statement of not all animals having emotions based of the fact that fish can become acclimated to the person that feeds them but when another person feeds them they will be more shy, this begs the question of is a learned trait connected to emotion?. Also some schooling fish sometimes won't accept a fish of their same kind why is that? They can be perfectly healthy and still not be accepted. Why is that?
I don't think that unless you ask the god(s) of (insert belife here) or drop a bunch of acid you will ever know the answer to this question. Therefore I provide my animals with as close to their natural habitat as possible and only house them in enclosures I think I, as an emotional beign, would enjoy.
Well, its late I have bronchitis and an ear infection, I hope this made sense and I hope that I didn't offend anyone but If I did I appologize for nothing, after all its just my opinion.
I voted cruel on the basis that most bowls don't have filters and thus are not safe for fish. I know that whales are mammals but this priniciple still applies. An animal that is obviously deformed (fin curl) because of it inability to exercise properly, how cruel is that, yes it may be healthy but wouldn't it be happier in a bigger tank? Or how about the elephant at the local zoo that rocks back and forth from boredom?
I do not dispute Alans statement that everyone is entitled to their opinion I applaud that thinking, but thoughts are not fact either and I won't claim mine to be, as neither did he.
I believe that fish do have a primitive system of emotion, That they are capable of thought even if its not at a level that is understandable to us. Therfore I disagree with his statement but would otherwise like to comend him for speaking his mind and explaining his thoughts.
I challenge his statement of not all animals having emotions based of the fact that fish can become acclimated to the person that feeds them but when another person feeds them they will be more shy, this begs the question of is a learned trait connected to emotion?. Also some schooling fish sometimes won't accept a fish of their same kind why is that? They can be perfectly healthy and still not be accepted. Why is that?
I don't think that unless you ask the god(s) of (insert belife here) or drop a bunch of acid you will ever know the answer to this question. Therefore I provide my animals with as close to their natural habitat as possible and only house them in enclosures I think I, as an emotional beign, would enjoy.
Well, its late I have bronchitis and an ear infection, I hope this made sense and I hope that I didn't offend anyone but If I did I appologize for nothing, after all its just my opinion.
Call me a masochist, but I think this is one of the healthier debates I've seen here. Honestly, I find it very cool that people can "debate" and explain their point of view without "flaming" going on. I still vote cruel however due simply to attainable size. A betta can be kept reponsibly (by a knowledgeable aquarist) in a bowl, a goldfish that should reach 8"+ can't IMO.
I have already said that I don't think they cool in my first post. I also explained why I voted cool when HN asked. Please re read my posts. It is too much to type from my black berry and I don't know how to copy and paste from this device. I don't think a gold fish bowl is cool. I don't think its cruel either. I think its just dumb.
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