Goldfish are coldwater- misconception???

[fballguy]

I realized this probably would not get alot of people seeing it in the coldwater section so I reposted it here.

OK I have done a little research just because I have no life and nothing better to do. I know that goldfish are native to China even in parts where the water gets pretty cold in the winter. But they also are native to Thailand, which has a tropical climate. In June, July, and August the average temperature in a little over 90 degrees Fahrenheit. I have spent several summers in Eastern Washington, in the Columbia Basin, where the average summer temperature is 80 degrees. The lakes there get up to 80 degrees just about every summer. So, if lakes can go from being frozen over to 80 degrees in just a few months in Eastern Washington, then you know they are even warmer in Thailand. That being said, from my research I have concluded that goldfish would survive and live a long healthy life in a tropical aquarium.

Any thoughts???

 

[Wishful]

We had goldfish in our outdoor pond in Kansas. Summers would routinely get up to 90-100 degrees air temperature. The top few inches of the water would also get quite warm---and as such we only ever saw the goldfish come to the surface in the summer when they were being fed, or in the early morning hours when it was cooler. They retreated to the deeper parts of the pond during the summer to stay cool. Even bodies of water that get quite warm on the surface, will remain much much cooler in the depths. We had to re-design our first goldfish pond as it was too shallow and the warmer waters (up to 80 degrees at the midpoint to the deepest area) caused significant distress in our fish. Having no cooler depth to retreat too, they ended up on the surface gasping regularly during the warmer months.

Just as bettas can survive in tiny aquariums, goldfish can survive in warmer waters--but not as well or as long or as easily as they do in ideal conditions.

 

[Paccula]

I agree. many people keep goldfish in tropical tanks with their other fish, and they do fine. but, goldfish given ideal conditions they can live an extreamly long time (around 15 years), but they sure don't live that long for most people!

 

[fballguy]

We had goldfish in our outdoor pond in Kansas. Summers would routinely get up to 90-100 degrees air temperature. The top few inches of the water would also get quite warm---and as such we only ever saw the goldfish come to the surface in the summer when they were being fed, or in the early morning hours when it was cooler. They retreated to the deeper parts of the pond during the summer to stay cool. Even bodies of water that get quite warm on the surface, will remain much much cooler in the depths. We had to re-design our first goldfish pond as it was too shallow and the warmer waters (up to 80 degrees at the midpoint to the deepest area) caused significant distress in our fish. Having no cooler depth to retreat too, they ended up on the surface gasping regularly during the warmer months.

Just as bettas can survive in tiny aquariums, goldfish can survive in warmer waters--but not as well or as long or as easily as they do in ideal conditions.

Did you ever take a temp reading? A small pond will be more extreme with temperature. Compare it to a lake. Lakes have a much larger volume of water and take much longer to heat up. But a small pond will heat very fast. I used to have a small pond but never had fish in it. It would only take 2 or 3 95 degree days in mid June for the water to be up to 85-90 degrees and I stuck the thermometer on the bottom of the pond 3 feet deep. That kind of temperature is not safe for any fish. I would take the boat out fishing and the lake would still be at 73-75 degrees at the time.

 

[Roan Art]

Goldfish have been raised and selectively bred indoors since the Ming dynasty. Not ponds. I'm sure you read this:

http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/info.htm

You'll note the varieties that are indicated that would not survive in ponds are the Fancy and Very Fancy types.

Comets and veiltails were not developed until the early 1900s.

So, IMO, you are correct in that comets, shubunkins and veiltails MAY survive in a tropical tank, comets and shubunkins grow far to large to keep in a tropical tank and veiltails can also hit 12" in size if kept properly.

Fancy varieties, on the other hand, have been bred for centuries indoors at room temperature and protected from the elements. That's not to say that they didn't get hot at times -- no air conditioning -- however since the advent of chillers and air condioners there have been countless generations bred in constant room temp or lower conditions.

If you want a definitive answer to this, you need to contact the *breeders* of the goldfish and ask them. They are the ones that matter in regards to what temperature the fish have been kept in.

My 2 cents
Roan

 

[Wishful]

Fballguy

When our first goldfish started having problems, I started tracking the surface (2 inches under) mid-water (approx 9" and 1.5' for the two levels) and deep (approx 3') temps as part of my efforts to isolate the issues involved. When we dug our new deeper and redesigned gold fish pond in an area with more protection from the sun, I took the same measurements on a weekly basis for six months, and on a monthly basis over the course of 12 months as an on-going science project.

So long as a tank is large enough to handle the bio-load and the other stock is selected for fish that also do well in cooler water, I don't see why a fancy goldfish couldn't be incorporated into a community tank (or vice versa if the emphasis is on the goldfish). I just cringe when I see a standard goldfish stuck in a tank that holds to 79-80 as the minimum temp because the rest of the fish prefer 80+ temps.

 

[stingray4540]

One thing you may have forgoten to consider, is that lakes and any large body of water, stay a lot cooler the deeper you go. the lake might be 80F at the surface, but go 30 feet down and you'll see a difference. the deeper you go the colder it will get. This is why some lakes can accomodate both trout(cold water fish) and bass (warm water fish). during the summer months the trout are deep and the bass showlow, and visa versa in the winter. So, those goldfish could be surviving only because they can retreat to cooler waters.
Just something to consider, as I know nothing about goldfish.

 

[momar]

Goldfish are NOT tropical. But they are not "cold" water, either. Being from a subtropical climate, ie China and the far east, their ideal temperature range is the mid 60s to low 70s F. Much like hillstream loaches and white clouds. Being incredibly hardy, they can easily survive above and well below this temperature range. As Roan said, fancy types prefer warmer temperatures as they were bred as an indoor fish. Although they live longer at lower temperatures, they are considerably less active.