Goldfish Newbie - Need to correct my mistake keeping them in small tank!

[Fev]

Hey!

I have x2 Goldfish - I think they are Comets...

I have found an article about how fast they might grow, what do you guys think?

How Fast Do Goldfish Grow? Kokos Goldfish Forum? Started by blackteles, Oct 10 2010 03:39 PM
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzon...goldfish-grow/

1. Agree with this article or disagree?

2. Can anyone point me out any more info here in your forum to add to this info etc?

3. My main concern to try to find an answer to is how long it may possibly take before I absolutely have to put them into the
larger environment? They are only about 2inches long atm...
Smaller tank might "stunt" their growth but the larger one is heated....?

4. I am planning on making them a portable outdoor pond to move them to as I had no idea they normally grow so large when I
got them. Any advice on how to keep set up cheap etc? I would like to keep them as it's totally my fault I didn't research
enogh before I got them....

5. We were in between moving them from a small approx 15 litre tank to a 23 gallon tank but we are heating it and was
planning on getting Tropical/Warm water fish so was adviced to keep them seperate...
Is it better to leave them in the smaller tank to seperate away from the heater until we can arrange my portable pond idea?
Or do you think they can survive in the heated water?

(Note: They are both currently struggling, one "semmed" to have gotten "ick" after I put it in the warm water and the
other seems to have Fin Rot, providing they survive these I want to know what's best to do for them as we were hoping to
set up the larger tank as Warm Water / Tropical set up with some other fish Goldfish might not get along with....

Do we need to filter outdoor pond? Point me to any other posts that cover this? I will start reading your main posts asap...

 

[garyfla]

Hi
Probably the "Ideal" environment for GF is 50 gallons of water per fish with temps below 70. They will survive a wide range outside that as you've already learned . They are generally a poor choice as a tank fish but almost ideal as a pond fish for many reasons. IMO they do not require seasonal changes but you just have to look at some in cool water as compared to warm to see the BIG difference.
There are soooo many species of fish that thrive in warm small quarters why do it??? gary

 

[Fev]

It was only because we already had the two goldfish and my husband doesn't want more then one tank...

If I can convince him to do the outdoors portable pond (portable meaning not dug into the ground),
what kind of maintenance would it need?

 

[garyfla]

Hi
There are dozens of ways to set up a pond including above ground much depends on the winter climate naturally.
I have a 5x10 x3 foot above ground made with lined 4x4. I live in s. florida so don't have to deal with snow and ice
Check around the net on various types of setups better yet find some local ones that deal with your particular problems. generally a pond is about a third the work of an aquarium. gary

 

[Kashta]

1. Agree with this article or disagree?

Let's just say I take strong issue with that particular article. At best, it's poor advice. Further, how fast goldfish grow is NOT a tough question to answer in any respect. This author should be disregarded.

It's pretty simple, actually:

1. If housed appropriately and under proper conditions, juvenile comet goldfish will double in size every few months for the first year or two of their lives. They gain size very fast their first year, as much as 80% of their adult size. The second year, this growth slows a little as we see greater fin development.

2. If they are overcrowded or housed in a small tank or the conditions are substandard, their growth will be permanently stunted. Goldfish produce a hormone which inhibits their body growth when kept in a too-small tank but that doesn't stop their internal organs and eyes from continuing to grow at a "normal" rate, thus the stunting, poor health, low resistance to parasites and infection, and so on.

2. Can anyone point me out any more info here in your forum to add to this info etc?

Look to the coldwater forum for advice about keeping goldfish in tanks, even temporarily when you plan to move them later to a pond.

3. My main concern to try to find an answer to is how long it may possibly take before I absolutely have to put them into the larger environment? They are only about 2inches long atm...
Smaller tank might "stunt" their growth but the larger one is heated....?

There is no "how long before you have to..." when it comes to goldfish. Because of their growth dynamic, you can't wait to move them to a suitable tank. Makes no difference how "little" they are in the beginning. If they don't start out with the right setup, it's highly unlikely you will avoid stunting OR making them sick. They are also coldwater fish and do not need a heater.

Suitable space per fish is 20 gallons of water per comet (15 gallons of water per fancy type). Compared to an appropriate tropical setup for community fish, quadruple the filtration and leave out the heater. You can then keep them there long-term and with routine maintenance practices and not need to worry about stunting.

4. I am planning on making them a portable outdoor pond to move them to as I had no idea they normally grow so large when I got them. Any advice on how to keep set up cheap etc? I would like to keep them as it's totally my fault I didn't research enogh before I got them....

That happens. But you are doing the research now and seem to be willing to make adjustments to keep them healthy. Good for you! It's very hard for new goldfish keepers to make realistic decisions when so many stores give the wrong information and internet enthusiasts keep spreading myths they heard about goldfish which aren't true.

For advice about pond setups, I'll defer to others who actually have experience with ponds.

5. We were in between moving them from a small approx 15 litre tank to a 23 gallon tank but we are heating it and was planning on getting Tropical/Warm water fish so was adviced to keep them seperate...
Is it better to leave them in the smaller tank to seperate away from the heater until we can arrange my portable pond idea? Or do you think they can survive in the heated water?

It sounds like you're in a tough spot with them. Your 23 gallon tank isn't big enough for two comets, even despite their current small size. And that smaller tank would be even worse. Yes, they should be kept separate from other non-goldfish types as well.

Exactly how warm is the heated water? It would be okay to keep them up to about 75-77 degrees without concern.... higher than that jacks up their metabolism a lot, which speeds up everything - their growth, level of activity, food consumption, and so on. (Which explains why active goldfish may seem "happy" or "playful" to novice goldfishkeepers when, in fact, their environment is causing the "apparent" mood/behaviour artificially and then they get "sick" all of a sudden.)

(Note: They are both currently struggling, one "semmed" to have gotten "ick" after I put it in the warm water and the other seems to have Fin Rot, providing they survive these I want to know what's best to do for them as we were hoping to set up the larger tank as Warm Water / Tropical set up with some other fish Goldfish might not get along with....

As a temporary setup, you need an absolute minimum 40 gallon tank. Commercially, 55 gallon tanks are the most common mass produced tank size so you might be able to locate a second-hand 55 gallon quickly and at a low price. I wouldn't recommend that for fancies because those tanks are so narrow, but pond types turn more easily and benefit from the lateral distance.

For long term, the 60-gallon and 80-gallon profiles give better depth and allow you to keep 3 or 4 goldfish together, which is also better for them than keeping just a pair.

 

[Kashta]

Hi
Probably the "Ideal" environment for GF is 50 gallons of water per fish with temps below 70. They will survive a wide range outside that as you've already learned . They are generally a poor choice as a tank fish but almost ideal as a pond fish for many reasons. IMO they do not require seasonal changes but you just have to look at some in cool water as compared to warm to see the BIG difference.
There are soooo many species of fish that thrive in warm small quarters why do it??? gary

I disagree with the comment that goldfish are a poor choice as tank fish. We just need to make sure the setup is suitable for them, is all. The initial investment in tank/equipment may be relatively high, but healthy full-grown goldfish make a wonderful display and healthy goldfish have very long lifespans.

I first started keeping goldfish in an 80 gallon tank during the 1980's where I received bad advice and immediately overstocked it and lost every one of them to disease, even after spending a fortune on meds and chemicals. I learned a lot about them, the hard way.

Now, I have my "pond" in a 110 gallon glass box in my living room and know better what conditions they really need. Based on experience, I highly recommend goldfish for someone willing to devote a large enough tank for them.

 

[Fev]

Possible Stunted GoldFish?

Hmm, the main problem is keeping something big enough for them, unless their growth has already been "stunted", I did get them last year in August so they were actually in the small tank for a whole year before I heard anything about all Goldfish growing so big and their being able to be "stunted".... :uhoh:

Hmm, so if I have already "stunted" their growth without realising it before.... What to do now?
I'll keep looking into the outdoor pond idea still sounds like the best and easiest so far....? Gotta kick my husbands butt and get him to agree to the outside pond, he's convinced anything other then the Large 23 Gallon tank we now have will be too much trouble...

Or I will try to find Forum / Contacts here in Aus to find someone who already has a pond etc that will be willing to give them a better home? That is another option as long as I am convinced they will be well looked after....?

 

[Fev]

One thing I can't help pointing out though is the big difference in the Orange fish's behaviour once moved again from the small tank back into the larger one. Initially I thought I'd "quarantine" it cause it's the one that seems to have the "ick"....

My husband pointed out that since it was already in the big tank already before I saw the dots that we have to treat the big tank anyway so he put it back in again, the two Goldfish seemed to have missed each other....

I didn't even know that was possible..... He seemed to be getting more sick in the cold water, now I think it was more like "sulking"...
Hmm they don't seem to have really bulgy eyes... Apart from the illnesses I am trying to fight off them they "seem" normal, although they are the very first fish I have ever had........

 

[garyfla]

Hi
Wwouldn't argue for a second GF have been kept in every kind of container for hundred if not thousand of years . Still are for that matter. Heck my grandmother kept GF in a bowl for many years. Certainly not" ideal" for sure.
My point was if you want to keep GF or any fish for that matter Why not create a MUCH more suitable environment??

Can you keep GF in a small contaier ? of course you can !! But the larger the container the more healthy and trouble free they will be?? There are dozens of fish that will flourish in small warm tanks . why not choose those??
gary