Goldfish

[Roan Art]

bigger tank simply equates to better growth and health overall (which can be ruined if you dont keep up with the maintenance). my 3 goldfish are in a 55. they are doing very well on the diet they have, as well as the water change schedule of 50% weekly. what would be the best supplements than to increase the hardness for them? epsom salt adds magnesium right? what would be the best way to add calcium?

As momar suggested, crushed coral is a good way to add some calcium. IME with 40ppm out of the tap, it added another 20ppm to the tank water. It's rather limited on how much it will put in. Yes, it will raise the pH, but I wouldn't worry about that. Fish don't read pH (to quote RTR and Daveedka )

You can also buy Seachem's Equallibrium, which is a GH booster, or Tom Barr's GH Booster (much cheaper and just as good if not better).

I use 1 tsp of Barr's Booster after every water change in my 75gs, but then I also dose MgSO4 (magnesium) and a mix of CaCl2 (calcium chloride) and CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) every second day between water changes. Those tanks are heavily planted, btw, and no goldfish.

My levels in my planted tanks are usually around Mg 10-26ppm and Ca 100-150ppm, GH runs 20-25 dGH. Levels in those tanks depend on how many red stem plants I have.

You can get Tom's GH Booster from Gregg Watson here: http://www.gregwatson.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GHBooster

At $2.17 a pound, plus shipping it's a steal.

Roan

 

[tricksterpup]

bigger tank simply equates to better growth and health overall (which can be ruined if you dont keep up with the maintenance). my 3 goldfish are in a 55. they are doing very well on the diet they have, as well as the water change schedule of 50% weekly. what would be the best supplements than to increase the hardness for them? epsom salt adds magnesium right? what would be the best way to add calcium?

RG,
sometimes you do not need to add anything to water as long as you do regular water changes. I live in an area that has hard water so I do not need to add anything.

 

[InR reason]

I need to throw in my 2 cents regarding the "salt issue." I have 3 juvenile fancy goldfish. I use both Epsom salt and a tiny amount of aquarium salt after a weekly gravel-vac (I change about 10% of the water everyday). Why salt then?

2 months ago I bought the third fish- a beautiful Black Moor. All he did for the following few days was sit on the bottom of the tank completely unphased by anything and remained still. Like he was suffering from ammonia poisoning (he wasn't) and about to die. I added a tiny amount (and I mean very tiny Roan!) and withing 3 hours he was a brand new goldfish. It was a miracle and he joined the other two in doing what goldfish do best: endlessly looking for food, making poo, and watching me and waiting for their next meal. A little salt won't hurt them.

 

[Roan Art]

2 months ago I bought the third fish- a beautiful Black Moor. All he did for the following few days was sit on the bottom of the tank completely unphased by anything and remained still. Like he was suffering from ammonia poisoning (he wasn't) and about to die. I added a tiny amount (and I mean very tiny Roan!) and withing 3 hours he was a brand new goldfish. It was a miracle and he joined the other two in doing what goldfish do best: endlessly looking for food, making poo, and watching me and waiting for their next meal. A little salt won't hurt them.

A little salt *will* hurt them. It's just a matter of time.

People who put salt in their tanks obviously do not know what it is they are doing; how adding salt affects the fish. They do not have any idea of fish physiology and osmoregulation.

You might want to read this thread, part of which is being made into an article. I call to your attention the post by RTR down the page a bit, and subsequent responses:

http://aquafacts.net/showthread.php?t=623

It's going to be a great article when it's done.

Roan

 

[InR reason]

Roan I've heard this before about goldfish- they are apparently very intolerant of salt. I do add add a little salt for my bettas and cichlids but for now I'll just add a tiny amount of Epsom salt for hardness. My question for you is about the change in the salinity of my goldfish's water. Will the discontinuation of aquarium salt effect my fish in a drastic or negative way? Can I continue with the Epsom?

And what of the benefits of the salt like helping to build up slime coating?

 

[Roan Art]

Roan I've heard this before about goldfish- they are apparently very intolerant of salt. I do add add a little salt for my bettas and cichlids but for now I'll just add a tiny amount of Epsom salt for hardness. My question for you is about the change in the salinity of my goldfish's water. Will the discontinuation of aquarium salt effect my fish in a drastic or negative way?

Not if you phase it out by doing regular water changes and omitting the salt.

Can I continue with the Epsom?

I think the key question here is: what is the GH of your water out of the tap? If you are going to increase the hardness, let's see where you are at and how much you are increasing it right now. IMO if you are going to increase the water hardness then you should use Ca in conjunction with Mg.

Oh, one more question: are there plants in the tank?

And what of the benefits of the salt like helping to build up slime coating?

Salt doesn't help build up the slime coat. Salt irritates the fish's scales and causes it to produce more slime. I wouldn't call that a benefit, myself. Fish produce all the slime coat they need without any assistance from us. If they need help with that, then there is something far more funky and sinister going on than salt will help with.

Part of the problem, I think, is that we are brought up with the idea of "preventive medicine". Take this and you will never get that. Worried about cholesterol? Eat oatmeal! And so forth.

We apply this type of reasoning to our fish as well. We shouldn't. Fish don't have the freedom of choice or the freedom to make good and bad choices. They don't live their lives in a manner that they will require oatmeal or anything like that.

They eat what you give them and that's it.

Barring any hereditary factors or strange diseases of no known origin or cause: if you were living in a glass box and all your meals and life style were dictated to you, as was properly outlined by the government/scientists, in the most healthy way possible, do you think you'd need oatmeal to correct your cholesterol? Take asprin to thin your blood and ward off a heart attack?

Probably not, because you would be eating the correct foods all the time and getting an appropriate amount of exercise. Your preventive medicine is a healthy lifestyle.

I have a point, really I do

The same goes with fish. Their preventive medicine is a healthy life style. Clean water, good food and a savvy fish keeper who knows how to keep disease and parasites out of the tank (quarantine tanks, not overcrowding etc.,.). Do all that and you don't need any fancy schmancy chemicals or salt or anything of that nature.

Just go back to the basics and keep fish wisely is all that is needed for healthy, long-lived fish.

Roan, Long-Winded as Usual

 

[InR reason]

It's ok Roan you give good advice. And your posts aren't all bs either- they seem to be pretty detailed and researched.

To answer your questions: no plants in the tank. And my GH is- well, basically non-existant in my water. It's very, very soft (we use water softerners in for our well water) so I add a bit of Epsom salt in each tank. Some say that's fine and I'd like to know your opinion. Just a but raises my GH to 250ppm.

 

[Roan Art]

It's ok Roan you give good advice. And your posts aren't all bs either- they seem to be pretty detailed and researched.

Thank you and you're right. I rarely answer anything without doing my homework first.

To answer your questions: no plants in the tank. And my GH is- well, basically non-existant in my water. It's very, very soft (we use water softerners in for our well water) so I add a bit of Epsom salt in each tank. Some say that's fine and I'd like to know your opinion. Just a but raises my GH to 250ppm.

Oh blargh. You run your well water through a water softener? Is there any way to bypass that for your fish tanks? Water softeners strip all the Mg and Ca from the water and substitute it with salt. Not good for the long term health of the fish.

Also, if your GH is 0 out of the tap, then your KH will be 0 as well. That's not good at all and if it were so, your tank would be constantly cycling. Your bacteria need KH to survive. Are you adding anything else to the water? Baking soda?

250ppm is 14dKH and is a good level, but that's a lot of Mg to me.

Here's an interesting and informative thread I picked up at koivetforums on using Mg to raise GH in koi ponds. I haven't read all of it as yet. Three pages and i'm rushed for time ATM.

http://www.koivetforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7118

I'd read that Mg will have a dehydrating effect on fish if used in large quantities. It's generally prescribed for severe and/or chronic popeye to help lessen the fluid the builds up behind the eye. However, apparently the koi people in that thread say that people use Mg to to cure dropsy, but that is a myth. I didn't see anything re: pop eye.

Remember tho, Fancies are not Koi and yours are in a tank not a pond, so I wouldn't go raising the GH to what they've been doing. Wow.

Can you test your KH so we can see where it is at? You'll definitely need to add crushed coral to your tank to buffer it.

Roan

 

[InR reason]

Oh blargh. You run your well water through a water softener? Is there any way to bypass that for your fish tanks? Water softeners strip all the Mg and Ca from the water and substitute it with salt. Not good for the long term health of the fish.

Hehe- not unless I want to **** my parents off. Yes it makes my water VERY soft- perfect for my bettas but not my other fish.

Also, if your GH is 0 out of the tap, then your KH will be 0 as well. That's not good at all and if it were so, your tank would be constantly cycling. Your bacteria need KH to survive. Are you adding anything else to the water? Baking soda?

Wardley's PH buffer works fine for me.. I will however be getting the more economical Proper PH that I use for my African. It's in powder form and easier to measure.

250ppm is 14dKH and is a good level, but that's a lot of Mg to me.

Goldfish like hardness in water at a moderate level. Or so I've read and heard.

Remember tho, Fancies are not Koi and yours are in a tank not a pond, so I wouldn't go raising the GH to what they've been doing. Wow.

Can you test your KH so we can see where it is at? You'll definitely need to add crushed coral to your tank to buffer it.

Now this is interesting. My Mardel test strip indicates:
Hardness=120ppm
KH=the color shows up light blue (wtf? There is no "light blue" unless the KH is between the light and dark green which would be 120-180)
PH is 6.4

Uh not cool- the PH kit from Wardley's shows a stable 7.0 which is where I want it. **** I need a reliable test kit. Now this worries me. I use the PH tester for my bettas and my goldfish and the more expensive Mardley test strips for my cichlids.