Got 37 gallon Aqueon setup

[Byron Amazonas]

I am dosing the prime correctly. 1 drop per gallon of water. I am actually not dosing the ferts that much. Just a half cap full every week or so. But I haven't done any since I was gone. I had a friend come and feed a few times, take dead fish out etc. No water changes during those 2 weeks, but the day I came back I did one 30% change. I tested for Amonnia and it came out at 0. I have tests for nitrite and nitrate, but didn't bother testing for that. I could. I did not leave my lights on, they were on a timer.

So now I am waiting to get PH and hardness test kits in the mail, and I am going to contact the water company about their PH. I guess the plan will be to wait a few more weeks, test the water and see if any more fish die, then I guess assume that all is well and restock?

The only fish that I have (had) that weren't mentioned as good soft water fish are the cory cats, plecos. I've lost at least some of all my different fish. What's left are a few platys, all my panda corys died (the few large regular corys are still alive), a few lemon tetras, 7 out of 8 neon tetras, and 4 out of 5 giant danios...

Nitrate is an important test if the tank has been "neglected" at all, such as no weekly water changes, or if fish begin showing signs that something is wrong the nitrate and pH should immediately be tested, along with ammonia and nitrite. Even if the latter two are zero, a higher nitrate indicates problems. Keeping nitrates low is very important. More substantial water changes to achieve this, depending upon the number, is likely OK in your case as I am suspecting an acidic pH in both tap and tank, given the very soft GH. Once things are balanced, nitrate should remain steady, and never be allowed to rise above 20 ppm absolute max, and preferably be at 10ppm or lower.

Most of the fish mentioned are soft water, everything except the platy which being livebearers need some mineral. I would not add any more livebearers, but stay with soft water species (tetra, corys, danio here, plus rasbora and others). Corydoras panda is one of the more sensitive cory species, which is rather odd considering this species is no longer wild caught but farmed.

Byron.

 

[kahunacohen]

OK tested all parameters:
- 0 Ammonia
- 0 Nitrites
- 5 Nitrates
- 7.6 PH, using regular API PH, not High
- GH 8 drops, 143.2 PPM
- KH 4 drops, 71.6 PPM

So, where do I go from here. I have not lost any fish in at least 4 days.

Also what about Algae eaters, like Plecos? My water's starting to look quite greenish, and the algae is starting to spot the tank walls.

I'm going to guess that all the fish deaths were from disease. I also have noted some snails in the tank, most likely from some plants I added over the past few months. I remove them when I can.

So this is what have survived (remember despite the title, I've got a 55g):
- 3 Platys
- 5 Giant danios
- 6 Lemon tetras
- 6 Neon tetras
- 2 Panda Corys
- 2 Three stripe corys

 

[kahunacohen]

Any advice on this? I'd like to restock, but not sure how given the past deaths and the PH, GH, and KH that I tested.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

First, I would not remove snails, assuming these are the harmless small ones like pond or bladder or ramshorn, or if you're really lucky, Malaysian Livebearing (these latter look like cornucopia, cylindrical). These small snails get everywhere to eat all organic waste (yes, all the fish poop gets eaten), breaking it down faster for the various bacteria to use. Snails are one of our best friends in an aquarium. They also do eat algae, and keep plant leaves clean for better respiration.

The green is obviously algae of some form. The only successful way to keep this in check is via natural balance and water changes. First on the green water, that is a sign of high organics and light. What light is over this tank, and for how long? What is the water change schedule (frequency and volume changed)? Are you perhaps overfeeding?

The green dot algae is also due to organics and light. No fish will eat this. I have seen it in one or two tanks, not others, but I always run the sponge scraper over the inside of the glass on front (and sides and back sometimes) every week during the water change and it never occurs again unless I miss a week. Daylight entering the room can increase the tank lighting sufficient to cause this too.

Everything has to do with balance. Finding the right balance sometimes takes time, but once you do, things are much easier. And in newly set-up tanks, the balance is obviously going to be up and down a lot as the biology establishes, so issues like excess algae should be expected more. This does not mean we ignore them, but we must understand how nature works and work with it, not against it.

Byron.

 

[kahunacohen]

Thanks. There is a modular aqueon LED flxture with two bulbs out of three in. I leave it on between around 7am to 7pm. The tank is oposite a large window which gets some light in the afternoons. I do about a 30% water change every week.

Regarding the snails. That's funny I researched online and found that people try to get rid of them and say they take over the tank. These are quite small ones though.

In terms of the GH, KH, and PH levels I tested for, do those seem reasonable? Is my current stock compatible with these parameters? The platys not so much right? Most of them died. Should I give away the last two and add more giant Danios, tetras etc.?

Do I assume the deaths were due to a disease and wait a certain period of time before restocking? You mentioned not getting plecos. I liked mine because it seemed to clean the tank really well. What are the problems with them, other than the fact that they can get real big?

Thanks.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

There is a modular aqueon LED flxture with two bulbs out of three in. I leave it on between around 7am to 7pm. The tank is oposite a large window which gets some light in the afternoons. I do about a 30% water change every week.

I do not know this particular light (not much good with LED, still using the T8, lol) but if you could post a link to data on the light you have I may be able to ascertain more. On daylight, be careful; bright daylight is much stronger than many realize; I went through three summers of bad brush algae increases before I tracked it down to the additional daylight (longer and more intense) during summer. Heavy drapes two years ago ended the problem, so I know it was the daylight increase. Green water is light-related.

I would increase the water changes to half the tank volume, and still weekly. Do some vacuumoing of the open substrate, at least initially; if lots of detritus gets sucked up, this is another contributor. Some of this makes good plant nutrients, but too much for the plant load and algae will use it. What is the nitrate test reading, if you can do it?

Re

garding the snails. That's funny I researched online and found that people try to get rid of them and say they take over the tank. These are quite small ones though.

Snails are misunderstood by many, as a sign of "dirty tanks" but not necessarily. As I said previously, they do a tremendous job which we cannot replicate with all our water changes and filters. These do different tasks of course. But the snails get everywhere and eat the waste. I have several hundred in my larger tanks; interestingly, they do not get all that large (die off before they reach much of a size) which I assume means they are unable to find sufficient food to sustain them.

In terms of the GH, KH, and PH levels I tested for, do those seem reasonable? Is my current stock compatible with these parameters? The platys not so much right? Most of them died. Should I give away the last two and add more giant Danios, tetras etc.?

Remind me, did I check into your local water report previously, and find the water was soft? I thought the GH was a tad lower then, around 5 or 6 dGH? Liuvebearers will have serious trouble in soft water, so yes, avoid them. Tetra, danio, rasbora, barbs, most catfish, anabantoids and SA cichlids will all thrive in soft water, so no issues there. Just research the species' needs (numbers, temperament, etc) and stock carefully. No all soft water fish work well with other soft water fish.

Do I assume the deaths were due to a disease and wait a certain period of time before restocking? You mentioned not getting plecos. I liked mine because it seemed to clean the tank really well. What are the problems with them, other than the fact that they can get real big?

Again if memory serves me, I am not sure we tracked down the cause of the deaths, did we? If after a week since the last death, nothing else has died or is looking problematical, you can consider new fish. Can you quarantine them?

Pleco should go into established tanks, depending upon species. Those eating algae will always settle better if algae is available. And of course, they do not eat any algae, but are specific. Here I mean natural biofilm algae which forms on surfaces as the biology establishes. Some pleco get large, and all of them have a significant impact on the biology, the larger the more. Some aquarists refer to them as waste factories, which is not far off. So again, choose species carefully. In your set-up, I would not consider species that attain more than 4-5 inches. The "common" pleco attains 18 inches plus.

Byron.

 

[kahunacohen]

Here is a link to the lighting system:
http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/modular-led-aquarium-fixture.htm. I have two strips out of 3. Generally it's enough for low light plants etc. I think there's info on this forum about more techincal details about the strips--it's a bit hard to come by otherwise.

Here's the sheet again from the water co: http://www.wsscwater.com/file/2012wqr.pdf. You can see more of what you said on page 8 of this thread.

As I said my nitrates are at about 10 ppm. Can you explain the PH and hardness readings I found using my test kits? I am afraid I don't really understand what they mean. The PH seems to read alkaline, at 7.6, right? Not sure at all what the KH and GH numbers mean and whether they match up with what the water co says.

No, we never figured out cause of death, but the death seems to have stopped. Would you get rid of the remaining Platys? Yes, I have an isolation tank. Are you saying I should put whatever new fish I get into it? How many new fish at a time do you usually get? Thanks again Byron.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

Here is a link to the lighting system:
http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/modular-led-aquarium-fixture.htm. I have two strips out of 3. Generally it's enough for low light plants etc. I think there's info on this forum about more techincal details about the strips--it's a bit hard to come by otherwise.

Nothing there to tell us the intensity. Maybe another member or two will have had experience. I would just guess that this is not going to be too bright a light, but the additional daylight is likely factoring in. And of course, the plant load has to be sufficient to use the nutrients and light.

Here's the sheet again from the water co: http://www.wsscwater.com/file/2012wqr.pdf. You can see more of what you said on page 8 of this thread.

As I said my nitrates are at about 10 ppm. Can you explain the PH and hardness readings I found using my test kits? I am afraid I don't really understand what they mean. The PH seems to read alkaline, at 7.6, right? Not sure at all what the KH and GH numbers mean and whether they match up with what the water co says.

Yes, that's the one I recall. They say 120-130 ppm for Potomac GH, which is not far from your test. And one would assume the API tests for aquarists are not as scientific as those the municipality would use.

What is the tap water pH reading (remember to out-gas the CO2)? To compare.

No, we never figured out cause of death, but the death seems to have stopped. Would you get rid of the remaining Platys? Yes, I have an isolation tank. Are you saying I should put whatever new fish I get into it? How many new fish at a time do you usually get?

The Platy are not likely going to be in the best of condition, but it may be better to just let them live out their lives where they are, unless you know someone with livebearer experience who will take them.

I use a QT for all new fish, usually for 3-5 weeks. Once you have a display tank running, the last thing you want is to introduce disease and lose existing fish. I've been down that road. I would say no less than 3 weeks, and better with 4-5. Only last month I added three fish from QT to one of my main tanks, after only two weeks in QT; they looked fine to my eyes. But within five days they came down with columnaris, and it rapidly spread through the other fish. My own fault for not following my own suggestion.

When I acquire fish that are shoaling, I get the entire group together if I can. New fish are generally much smaller than mature, and they manage fine in a smaller-than-recommended tank for the quarantine period.

Byron.

 

[kahunacohen]

Thanks Byron for all your help. Here's a post about the LEDs. I bought them not knowing much. Had I known I probably would have gotten flourcents instead. But apparently you can do a nice job with them with the right plants. See: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forum...on-Modular-LED&highlight=aqueon+low+light+LED

Can you explain the KH reading compared to the GH reading? I'll take the reading right off the tap and report back.

Right now my 10g tank has a molly and a Tiger Barb in it. I know they'd probably prefer some company, so it's probably not an isolation tank. What to do with those guys? Could they go in my main tank? Then how do you keep your QT tank if there are no regular fish in it? Do you turn it off, and just set it up with some of the media from the main tank?

 

[Byron Amazonas]

Thanks Byron for all your help. Here's a post about the LEDs. I bought them not knowing much. Had I known I probably would have gotten flourcents instead. But apparently you can do a nice job with them with the right plants. See: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forum...on-Modular-LED&highlight=aqueon+low+light+LED

You're most welcome. You shouldn't have problems with the light; my questioning has to do with it possibly being too bright to balance things, hence the algae, and only you can judge that. Sometimes controlling the daylight helps, sometimes duration of the tank light.

Can you explain the KH reading compared to the GH reading? I'll take the reading right off the tap and report back.

This I will answer by cutting/pasting a portion of an article I did on the subject some time back:

Water hardness is the measure of dissolved mineral salts in the water, a portion of the TDS. There are two basic types of hardness of importance to aquarists, termed general hardness (abbreviated GH) and carbonate hardness (abbreviated KH, from the German “karbon” [carbon]).The combined GH and KH is sometimes termed “total hardness,” but this is of less importance because the GH and KH individually impact the water in different ways.

General Hardness is basically determined by the minerals calcium and magnesium; GH is sometimes referred to as “permanent hardness” because it cannot be removed from water by boiling as can KH. GH is measured in several different units, but in the hobby the most common are parts per million (ppm) and degrees (dH or dGH). One dGH equals 10 milligrams of calcium or magnesium oxide per litre [2], and is equivalent to 17.848 ppm. Multiplying dGH by 17.9 gives ppm, and similarly dividing ppm by17.9 gives dGH [the same formula works for KH]. The following chart equates the degrees and relative ppm to common terms in the hobby.

0 - 4dGH 0 - 70 ppm very soft
4 - 8dGH 70 - 140 ppm soft
8 - 12dGH 140 - 210 ppm medium hard
12 -18 dGH 210 - 320 ppm fairly hard
18 -30 dGH 320 - 530 ppm hard
over30 dGH over 530 ppm very hard

Fish are directly impacted by GH and TDS; their growth, the transfer of nutrients and waste products through cell membranes, spawning (sperm transfer, egg fertility or hatching), and the proper functioning of internal organs such as the kidneys can all be affected.

Carbonate hardness is the measure of carbonate and bicarbonate ions; carbonates and bicarbonates are the salts of carbonic acid. It is sometimes referred to as Alkalinity [not to be confused with alkaline as in pH, something very different]. Carbonate hardness is also measured most often in either degrees (dKH) or parts per million (ppm), and the same formula to convert dGH to ppm and reverse also works for KH. KH is normally tied to the GH, since carbonate minerals include limestone, dolomite,calcium and calcite. Mollusc shells and coral are primarily calcium. Carbonate hardness is sometimes called “temporary hardness” because it can be removed from water by boiling which precipitates out the carbonates.

KH has no direct impact on fish like GH does; but it does “buffer” the pH by binding to additions of acids or bases, keeping the pH stable—or more correctly, preventing it from changing—and the higher the KH, the greater the buffering capacity. A simple way is to think of the buffer as a sponge that soaks up the acid being added; however, at some point it will become saturated, and further additions of the acid can then cause a sudden and very large fluctuation which is usually fatal to the fish. This buffering is why attempts to adjust (lower) the pH of hardwater are dangerous and will fail unless the KH is first reduced.

Right now my 10g tank has a molly and a Tiger Barb in it. I know they'd probably prefer some company, so it's probably not an isolation tank. What to do with those guys? Could they go in my main tank?

The molly is not going to last long in such soft water. This fish is one that absolutely must have mineral salts [= not common salt, but calcium, magnesium, etc] in the water or it develops problems.

Tiger barb is a shoalikng species and must be in a group. This particular barb has a reputation--well-deserved--of fin nipping, and this can be reduced and sometimes prevented by larger groups, say 10-12 or more, in a 30g minimum tank (alone), or in larger tanks with other active fish. I would definitely return this fish, or give it away; alone it is almost certain to cause trouble.

Then how do you keep your QT tank if there are no regular fish in it? Do you turn it off, and just set it up with some of the media from the main tank?

I have a dedicated fish room, so I keep a 20g planted tank running permanently and use this to quarantine new fish. If this is not a possibility, you have a couple of other options. Running a sponge filter in an established tank permanently (in the upper rear corner perhaps) and using this in the QT as needed. Taking filter media from an established tank and putting it in the filter of the QT. Both of these "seed" the QT with live bacteria. Or using one of the reliable bacterial supplements, like Dr. Tim's One and Only, Tetra's SafeStart or Seachem's Stability, which also serve to seed bacteria. Tossing some floating plants in the QT also helps, as these grab ammonia fast.

Byron.