Update: This morning I retested the pH and it's now 6.6. That's a number all of the fish in there should be able to live with, and hopefully will be stable. I don't want to raise it anymore because I don't want to shock them any worse than I already have. I've left a sample of tap water sitting out overnight and will test it tonight. Assuming its pH is higher than 6.6 (I'm sure it will be), and its ammonia level is low, I'll do some water changes. I do regular weekly tank gravel vacuuming and water changes anyway, so lack of maintenance is not what's caused this. I'm not sure what has, unless the low pH could have just slowed down the good bacteria that process the ammonia.
Gouramis with bent spine
- Thread starter msquared
- Start date
If I remember right, pH under 6 can kill off beneficial bacteria as it's just TOO acidic. So that could be your ammonia cause as well. There is still definitely something wrong with your water to have pH fluctuations like that, and until that's sorted out, I don't think the problem will be fixed. Do you have anything in your tank that might alter pH? Any rocks, driftwood, peat, etc.?
Are you using liquid test kits or sticks? I've never seen those numbers for gH and kH. Typically they range between 0-7. I've seen kH readings up to 20, but gH is typically no more than 7. kH has to do with your waters buffering capability (stable pH). The lower the number the more unstable your pH. If you have nothing in your tank that would alter pH, I'm thinking your kH might be extremely low. I only add baking soda to keep a stable kH, and it doesn't alter pH.
Do you use city water, softened water, well water, reverse osmosis water, or distilled water?
Are you using liquid test kits or sticks? I've never seen those numbers for gH and kH. Typically they range between 0-7. I've seen kH readings up to 20, but gH is typically no more than 7. kH has to do with your waters buffering capability (stable pH). The lower the number the more unstable your pH. If you have nothing in your tank that would alter pH, I'm thinking your kH might be extremely low. I only add baking soda to keep a stable kH, and it doesn't alter pH.
Do you use city water, softened water, well water, reverse osmosis water, or distilled water?
I rely on the API liquid test kit, but sometime use strips to verify it. They all agree. The hardness numbers can be read in two different units. I was giving you mg/L, just because that's what the included chart shows. I think you're thinking about grains per gallon. In those units, my readings are GH of 7 and KH 1-2. I think that chronically low KH is a problem - as you say, there is little to buffer the pH and so it can change quite easily. I do have a large piece of driftwood, but it's been in there for two years and things have been stable for a long time until now. I did clean some algea off of it a few weeks ago. Even though I let it soak for some time before putting it back in the tank, I wonder if it released more tannins due to that cleaning.
I think the key for me to correct the ph stability (not just now, but as a permanent solution) is to use the pH correction stuff I bought. That should serve as a buffer, and it will only need to be added 1-2x per month. I predict that you're right about the acidity hurting the beneficial bacteria. In the short term, I guess I have to hope there is enough live bacteria left to re-colonize the tank, and I'll manage the ammonia buildup with water changes until that is fixed. This all assumes that there is nothing suddenly wrong with my tap water, of course!
I think the key for me to correct the ph stability (not just now, but as a permanent solution) is to use the pH correction stuff I bought. That should serve as a buffer, and it will only need to be added 1-2x per month. I predict that you're right about the acidity hurting the beneficial bacteria. In the short term, I guess I have to hope there is enough live bacteria left to re-colonize the tank, and I'll manage the ammonia buildup with water changes until that is fixed. This all assumes that there is nothing suddenly wrong with my tap water, of course!
Ah, okay I see now. I've only recently been getting more into the kH and gH things, but have learned quite a bit in the past few months with getting into planted tanks and using RO water (my softened well water is junk). A kH of 1-2 is very low and you will get quite a few fluctuations with that. Any pH alter chemical is pretty unnecessary and will be more trouble than it's worth. An alkaline buffer might work alright, but I've found those to just be an expensive hassle. Plain old baking soda works perfectly and dissolves quickly. Slightly less than 1/8 teaspoon per gallon brings me from a kH of 0-1 to about 7 (a little high, but not too bad). When doing a water change, you can just add it to the water you will be adding to your tank and it should work fine to get your kH up and get rid of those nasty pH drops.
If you haven't yet, I'd test your tap water for ammonia just to be sure there's none there.
I hope all your fish stay healthy and pull through!
If you haven't yet, I'd test your tap water for ammonia just to be sure there's none there.
I hope all your fish stay healthy and pull through!
Reply and update:
Thanks for the tip on the baking soda. Now that I know that, I'm betting the stuff I got is just very expensive re-packaged baking soda (or pretty close). It's suggested use is pretty much the same as how you suggested I add the baking soda. I'll probably just use it up and then move to your alternative. Unfortunately, my tap water does have ammonia in it - always has - at about 0.75ppm or so. It's never been a problem because I've always had a good cycle going. I don't know what else I could do about it, either.
The good news is that as of Saturday night, the ammonia had not gone up and might have even come down a bit. I didn't test yesterday but will tonight. I did do some vacuuming and water changes, mainly to keep food from building up on the bottom and adding to the ammonia. I'm hoping that I didn't completely lose my bacteria colony, and that it can now rebuild. The pH remains stable at 6.6. The bad news is that I lost one cory (I expected that) and my two gouramis still aren't eating. I honestly don't expect them to live long, but somehow they are for now. The angels and tetras seem fine. So complete disaster was averted.
Thanks for the tip on the baking soda. Now that I know that, I'm betting the stuff I got is just very expensive re-packaged baking soda (or pretty close). It's suggested use is pretty much the same as how you suggested I add the baking soda. I'll probably just use it up and then move to your alternative. Unfortunately, my tap water does have ammonia in it - always has - at about 0.75ppm or so. It's never been a problem because I've always had a good cycle going. I don't know what else I could do about it, either.
The good news is that as of Saturday night, the ammonia had not gone up and might have even come down a bit. I didn't test yesterday but will tonight. I did do some vacuuming and water changes, mainly to keep food from building up on the bottom and adding to the ammonia. I'm hoping that I didn't completely lose my bacteria colony, and that it can now rebuild. The pH remains stable at 6.6. The bad news is that I lost one cory (I expected that) and my two gouramis still aren't eating. I honestly don't expect them to live long, but somehow they are for now. The angels and tetras seem fine. So complete disaster was averted.
Wow! That's a lot of ammonia straight out of the tap! As far as I know there's nothing you can really do about it however aside from either using reverse osmosis water. I don't think water changes will get your ammonia down much if the water you're swapping it out with has ammonia. It can't get cleared of ammonia "instantly".
Sorry to hear about the cory. Hopefully the gouramis are able to pull through. I just had my tank go through a slight mini cycle due to a dead plant I disturbed and yanked out. Found my gourami laying on his side breathing heavily on the bottom of the tank. Netted him and kept him near the top of the water to breath from the surface and keep fish from stressing him, and within about 2 days he was strong and healthy enough to be released again. They seem to be sensitive yet hardy fish, if that makes any sense.
Sorry to hear about the cory. Hopefully the gouramis are able to pull through. I just had my tank go through a slight mini cycle due to a dead plant I disturbed and yanked out. Found my gourami laying on his side breathing heavily on the bottom of the tank. Netted him and kept him near the top of the water to breath from the surface and keep fish from stressing him, and within about 2 days he was strong and healthy enough to be released again. They seem to be sensitive yet hardy fish, if that makes any sense.
Good news: down to 0.25ppm ammonia, still no nitrites. So I seem to have averted a full-bore cycle. I guess we'll see about these gouramis. I assume their spines are permanently deformed, so it's hard to imagine them living long. And I know they won't if they don't start eating. But one never knows. If they're still alive a month from now, I'll report back.
