Hair Algae!

[happychem]

You say that you accidentally added too much PO4 and the result was mad pearling?\

Let's verify this than. Decrease PO4 to 1.5-2, keep NO3 at 20 ppm. Observe plants, give it a week, be patient. If there is a benefit to the higher PO4 level, the detriments of cutting back probably won't be immediately noticeable as the plants use stored nutrients.

If there's a clear decrease in pearling or any signs of PO4 deficiency, increase back to 3 ppm. Again, watch for signs of improvement, but be very skeptical about it and be honest with yourself (it's not easy!). It's difficult to detect a subtle difference, and if you're really wanting it, you could be tricking yourself, so only accept an obvious improvement, which should only take a few days or less to show. If there's no obvious improvement, return to the 1.5-2 ppm range.

With all respect to Chuck Gadd, I'm not sold on iron causing hair algae. At least not in my tanks. I've pushed trace/iron dosing well above "necessary" levels without signs of algae. Conversely, I have observed clear deficiencies when I don't dose, so I guess this is a voice in favour of iron supplementation. That said, I'm not very trusting or iron test kits - or hobby kits in general - so bear in mind that the values reported are just ballpark figures unless you've calibrated them against a standard.

Ultimately, the way that I beat this algae was with careful nutrient control and a 4 day blackout. The blackout was followed by a careful monitoring of nutrient levels, although now I'm slack on testing again, but no new hair algae.

 

[Roan Art]

With all respect to Chuck Gadd, I'm not sold on iron causing hair algae. At least not in my tanks. I've pushed trace/iron dosing well above "necessary" levels without signs of algae. Conversely, I have observed clear deficiencies when I don't dose, so I guess this is a voice in favour of iron supplementation. That said, I'm not very trusting or iron test kits - or hobby kits in general - so bear in mind that the values reported are just ballpark figures unless you've calibrated them against a standard.

Point noted I don't use the values, myself, but an average of the values. I mean I run tests and use the most consistant number or an average of all the numbers, say ".2" for example, and assign that number to that particular tank or tap. Doesn't mean I have .2ppm iron, just that it's 2 SOMETHING Anyhow, if a tank tests at .2 after a water change and then .1 a few days later, then it has used up some of the "2". So while the initial value may be wrong, there is definitely some usage there and that's what I want to know Does this make sense?

Anyhow, I'm at .2 out of the tap and I do have hair algae. It got worse when I dosed Fe and less when I did not dose Fe. After 3 days my tanks usually test at .1 Fe, so half of it is being consumed by something I suspect the plants use up .5 and the algae whatever they can get. I've not let my tanks go without a water change longer than 4 days (if I can help it) so I don't know if the Fe bottoms out or not.

Some day I'd like to try leaving it for another 3 or 4 days. I suspect that my tanks would do best (no real hair algae) if it was .1 from the water change.

Hrm.
Roan

 

[Sully]

i have no hope of ever becoming as knowledgeable or conversant as Tom in the intricacies of a planted tank and water chemistry. I think he retained more out of chem than I learned--lol. I have about the planted tank over the years. Finally went into it a couple of months ago. (Where are the old days of fishkeeping--i never needed to worry about anything but the the things that swim.) I am not the best person to offer an opinion about algae...but i cannot help myself...especially since i saw the iton comment.

Just a purely anecdotal note. I dosed iron on sunday in an overgrown 75 (have not trimmed the weeds in a week and a half). I was hoping to see a bit more red in some crypt and radican sword. Okay, in the telenthera and ludwigia too. Instead i got hair. Not a lot--just a little. It was the first time I had dosed iron as a stand alone additive. I think it was my last.


Link to overgrown 75 (http://www.tropicalfishgallery.com/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1835&fullsize=1 ). I actualy removed 6 leaves from the crypt last night instead of being patient and solving the issue of hair.

 

[djlen]

That's the reason I asked you for an updated picture. I wanted to see how/if your plant mass has increased. When you do your mid-week test, do you find that the plants are using N or P or both?
It's great to have high N and P values IF the plants use them. If there is an over abundance or imbalance the algae will use the overage.
It's funny how different tanks react to different tweaks. My tanks are loaded with Cryptocoryne and every time I've dosed extra Fe I've had algae issues. They just seem to be happy with what they get from the Flourite and the Trace Mix.

Len

 

[Jay]

I agree with Len, admittedly it is anecdotal, but fluorite and traces seem do do it for my Fe needs.

Terry..you might want to think about increasing your CO2 a little at the same time cutting the light period back a little and see if you start to see a withdraw of the Hair. When all else seems to be correct, low or inconsistent CO2 is usually the problem.

My CO2 by the KH pH charts is 80ppm. I don't believe that (another topic sometime), there is no fish stress, weeds are growing great, and no algae. Well...I trim a few leaves every week

Jay

 

[crabguy]

hair algae, black beard algae

i recently had a bba bloom in my 29gal. i bought 3 rosy barbs and in a weeks time it was 99% gone.

 

[imhandy2]

Here is a recent pic of my tank mass, bba and hair Algae.
There is alot of different ideas in this thread.
As of tonight My water parameters are:
P......2 I haven't dosed in a 3 days.
Fe....0.2 and I haven't dosed in 4 days.
N......still 20 and my water change is due tomorrow(haven't dosed since last Friday).

There dosn't seem to be any consumption of N, maybe I should add some N hogs?

Thank you everyone for your responses,

Terry.

 

[Jay]

No N consumption points to the plants being limited in some way. Your plant mass is really not high and you seem to have reached a draw between the plants and algae. I still reccomend cutting back on your light hours, and increasing your CO2 level.

It looks like BBA has a good foothold in your tank.
BBA is tough, it requires hard work and a multi front attack. You need to get as much out of the tank as you can, sterilize (bleach) equipment and decorations, plants dipped in bleach can be done, I wouldn't, so aggressive pruning is the way. I would add a lot more cheap fast growing stem plants and get the plant bio mass advantage shifted over to the plants.

Bump your CO2 up you are not injecting enough if BBA is being aggressive, prune and preen. It takes about two weeks to win.

Hair algae will die back with higher CO2 levels and will have a difficult time with 2x Excel dosing. But again you must do all you can to remove it from the tank and plants first.

Keep in mind that algae will fight back by producing spores from 10 minutes to an hour after you bother it. Water changes are important after you
attack it.

Then you have to give some thought to keeping the advantage on the plant side.

Just my 2 cents

Jay

 

[imhandy2]

No N consumption points to the plants being limited in some way. Your plant mass is really not high and you seem to have reached a draw between the plants and algae. I still reccomend cutting back on your light hours, and increasing your CO2 level.

It looks like BBA has a good foothold in your tank.
BBA is tough, it requires hard work and a multi front attack. You need to get as much out of the tank as you can, sterilize (bleach) equipment and decorations, plants dipped in bleach can be done, I wouldn't, so aggressive pruning is the way. I would add a lot more cheap fast growing stem plants and get the plant bio mass advantage shifted over to the plants.

Bump your CO2 up you are not injecting enough if BBA is being aggressive, prune and preen. It takes about two weeks to win.

Hair algae will die back with higher CO2 levels and will have a difficult time with 2x Excel dosing. But again you must do all you can to remove it from the tank and plants first.

Keep in mind that algae will fight back by producing spores from 10 minutes to an hour after you bother it. Water changes are important after you
attack it.

Then you have to give some thought to keeping the advantage on the plant side.

Just my 2 cents

Jay

Jay, in regards to increasing my plant mass, I always toil with what to add. Not crazy about stems because they are messy with all the strands(Roots) hanging off the stem, I am not crazy about the water sprite(it's a love hate relationship) in the center back of my tank. I have added today some Monosolenium tenerum on my center rock and a Cladophora aegagropila. I just don't want to add just anything, any suggestions.

Actually I have just completed my wc and have dosed 2x excel, kno3 and p04. I brought my P to 1.5-2, N to 20 and left my Fe(TE) at 0.1. I checked my KH and it is up to 7(?) which gives me 53ppm of C02, if I increase it, what should I increase it to?

Thanks,

Terry.

 

[Jay]

It gives you 53ppm if your pH is 6.4 and your KH is 7 and the CO2 is being injected. We can talk in another thread about believing CO2 levels based on pH KH testing and charts.

IME, If bba is growing, spreading and being agressive you are not injecting enough CO2.

We are talking short term here on the plants (cheap fast stems) if you are going to defeat bba and hair algae you are going to have to be agressive for a while make some aesthetic compromises, beat the stuff, get the tank settled, and then work on your scape. 2 to 4 weeks tops.

Jay