Help! Big time newbie! <------

[LuckyJGuy]

Hey guys, hope you can help me out here with all the questions I have.

Im looking to start a freshwater aquarium and Ive been reading up on fish and aquariums for a couple of weeks now but Id really like to hear from people with experience on what would be best for me as a beginner.
Ill start off with the tank, I was looking at something in the range of a 20 - 30 gallon tank, I dont necessarily want to put a ton of fish in there I just want a lot of room for a few to swim around. I was also interested in real plants, but thats beside the point. I went to Petco and PetsMart(am planning on going to local stores in the next few days) to price tanks and look at filters, etc. The guy at Petco suggested this new filter, he said it used less electricity and was more dependable than the others on the market, I cant remember the name of it, but it was a bio wheel filter??? He also suggested some water conditioner to use that he says he uses in his tank.
Aside from the setup I also have questions about the fish I want to get. PetsMart and Petco both gave me different responses when I asked about certain fish. What really caught my eye at the stores were the Puffers and the Red Tailed Sharks. At PetsMart they have dwarf puffers and the sharks in a tank together and they seem to get a long well. The guy at Petco said I could only put Puffers with larger fish and suggested that if I wanted to have the sharks too that they be bigger, they had Figure Eight Puffers and Leopard Puffers there.
This leads me to my biggest question. Are these semi agressive fish the right fish to start off with? Ive read up on the Puffers a little and found that they are hard to take care of. I really like the Red Tailed Sharks, but once again the same question. Should I just go with other community fish or would I be able to take care of these semi agressive fish? If I get either the 20 or 30 gallon I would plan on having 2-4 different types of fish(I mainly want to get smaller fish, hence the dwarf puffers). If you dont think these fish are the right beginner fish for me could you suggest some that you personally like, I only chose the Puffers and the Sharks because they were the only fish to catch my eye when I first got interested.
Sorry for the novel, Im just trying to make everything clear that way I can get the best response! Thanks!

 

[kveeti]

Originally posted by LuckyJGuy
I was looking at something in the range of a 20 - 30 gallon tank, I dont necessarily want to put a ton of fish in there I just want a lot of room for a few to swim around.

The guy at Petco suggested this new filter, he said it used less electricity and was more dependable than the others on the market, I cant remember the name of it, but it was a bio wheel filter??? He also suggested some water conditioner to use that he says he uses in his tank.

Re your first point quoted. Congratulations on some sound thinking, i.e. not putting in a ton of fish. If you're thinking of a certain tank size range, get the biggest tank you can afford.

I think the filter might be a Penguin? Never hand one, I've always used AquaClears. Electricity is one thing, but look at the chamber where the media goes. Can you put your own configuration in there (just sponges that you can rinse out and use for decades, saving $$$), or will you be stuck buying cartidges?

About the water conditioner. Just saying he uses it doesn't mean a lot. Why does he use it? Does your water supply have chlorine or chloramines? Find out. All you need is a conditioner that will address either of those.

Sorry, can't help you on the fish, as I've never had either...

 

[OrionGirl]

Bigger is better--go with the largest tank you can support.

I'm with kveeti on the filter--I use internal filters and AC's, no experience with others. However, if you do want this to be a planted tank, you probably do want a bio-wheel--they gas off the CO2 plants need with all that surface agitation. They are efficient biological filtration, but in a planted tank, especially a lightly planted one, that's seldom an issue.

Decide now what kind of plants you want, and start off with an adequate light setup. NO strip lights don't cut it for most plants, look at using power compacts.

For fish. Well, I have a rainbow shark that is in with my puffers. He's a bully, and chases both the SA puffers and the dwarves. Never hurt them, but bullies them often, especially when they approach his cave. The dwarves learned not to pick on him, even though they will nip at the bristlenose in the tank--the SA just ignore every one. Sharks are very aggressive, especially as they mature, but more so to conspecifics. In a 20-30 gallon tank (anything less then a 150, IMO), you'll be fine with one shark, but no more than that. I like my rainbow--bright red fins and tail, and a lovely sheen of color over the rest of the body.

For puffers--the dwarves are a good choice for a first puffer. They are cute, and unlike most other puffers, do not have as big a problem with tooth over growth. They do well in planted tanks, and will keep snails to a minimum. The biggest concern is feeding them for the first 6 months--mine would not take prepared foods. They ate live blood worms, live brine, and snails. Now, I just added 3 to my tank, and these guys learned right away about prepared foods, but they got to see the adult puffers eating. Just to be prepared--these guys are ravenous, and need a couple meals a day when they are juveniles--lots of snails and brine! More than a new tank will have. So, what I would do is get the tank setup. Get good lights and substrate, and plant it heavily. Let the plants get established and growing for a month or so. During this time, culture some snails as well (a tupperware tub works great) and find a source for some other live foods. Then, you will be able to introduce the fish all together, and have food for the puffers. The shark will eat anything--mine is partial to zucchini rind.

 

[LuckyJGuy]

To both; thanks for the replies and the suggestions.

Kveeti: The filter was basically the same as a Penguin but it was a different company, looked like the same thing to me. Ill have to go look at the chamber and see whats going on with that.
Also; where do I find info on my water, and if I have a filter is that going to help the water? Thanks for the reply!

OrionGirl - I found a 30 gallon at Petco, looked pretty nice, was more tall than long, I dont know if that makes a difference, kind of seems like the longer would be able to support more niches than the taller, either way a long 20 or tall 30 is basically what I can support. I really want live plants but it seems like a big chore for a beginning hobbyist. Therefore I think I will forgoe(sp?) the live plants for now until Im more comfortable and know what Im doing. I read somewhere that the sharks either have to live as a single(1 per tank) or in a group(school?) of 6 or more. Is that true?
Another thing, do I NEED bottom feeder? I always thought that a tank had to have some sort of bottom feeder but Im not sure. I really like the puffers but I think they would be a little much for now, unless Im wrong and they just sound hard! The sharks sound kind of easier to take care of.
Last thing: Should I get one of those feeding rings(sits on the top of the water and keeps the food confined to the ring itself) or does it matter? Thanks

 

[OrionGirl]

A group of sharks will only work in a large tank. In your tank, a single one works, a group will not.

The feeding rings are nice, but not needed, especially if you don't have surface feeders. Sharks feed from the bottom and midwater.

No, a bottom feeder is not required. You can manually clean the bottom of waste (fish won't clean wastes up), and food that falls down means you're likely overfeeding, but many fish will pick through the substrate if there is food there.

The dwarf puffers are not hard, as long as you make sure to provide the appropriate foods. Other FW puffers are difficult, as they require massive amounts of crunchy foods (snails, primarily) to prevent their beak-like teeth from growing too long. The dwarves require planning, but not a lot of effort.

Plants can be tough, or they can be easy. The easy route involves picking low light plants, like crypts, anubias, and java fern--these plants grow on wood and rock (except crypts, which are planted) and need very little light or fertilization to thrive. Plants like combomba, sags, swords, and most bunch plants will not survive in a low light tank (less than 2 WPG).

 

[kveeti]

Originally posted by LuckyJGuy
Also; where do I find info on my water, and if I have a filter is that going to help the water?

The guy at the fish store should be able to tell you, but I don’t know if I’d 100% trust his say, anyway. Phone the local water utility and ask. Sometimes they are helpful, sometimes not. Also, you could plug in your city name and “water utility” in a google search. Most utility companies have online sites which will tell how they disinfect your water supply.

The filter will help with mechanical and biological filtration (both very important) but will do nothing for chlorine or chloramines. If you just have chlorine, you have a lot of choices including letting your water sit and adding nothing. If you have chloramines, your choices are more limited. You have to be very careful of the water conditioner you buy as they are misleading. “Treats chloramines” is not enough, it specifically has to say it also binds the ammonia. But I wouldn’t worry about that for now unless you know that’s what you’re dealing with.

 

[LuckyJGuy]

Thanks for the fast replies!

Kveeti, thanks, Ill be on google looking up my water condition when I get home from work. The guy at Petco seemed very sincere when he was helping me so maybe Ill go back and get another opinion.

OrionGirl:Those low light plants that you mentioned; is there a downfall to them? It seems like if the plants are easy to take care of there has to be a drawback like the fish dont like them? Kind of like "you get what you pay for". Or are they good plants just easy to maintain?
Since Im only going to have one shark do I need to keep the count of the dwarf puffers down? When I watched the DP's they were chasing other fish in the tank that seemed 5 times their size. They werent picking on any sharks, I figured this was the case because the sharks outnumbered the puffers. Do I need to keep the number down to 2 or 3? I was planning on something like 4 or 5 depending on the size of them when I go to purchase. For a third type I was thinking of Tiger Barbs. Is that ok?

Thanks - Sorry to ask all these questions!

 

[OrionGirl]

No down fall to the plants. Very few fish will eat them--but that's a good thing! They are often slow growers, but they will still improve water quality. As with all plants, they do require some maintenance--removal of dead leaves, for example, but this is easily done during regular tank maintenance. I'm a big fan of live plants, since they are more natural hiding places for fish. Plastic and silk ones can scratch fish--real plants don't.

I've never mixed tiger barbs with my puffers. I will say my dwarves are very fiesty, and do not get harrassed by other fish, though they will nip fins. A group of 3-4 will be fine for your tank, as long as there are lots of visual breaks (males can be aggressive with each other).

For the barbs--tigers are some of the more aggressive barbs. If given a big enough group, more than 5, they usually concentrate on each other. If you put 6 barbs, one shark, and 3-4 puffers in the 30, it should be nicely stocked, and fairly busy. The barbs will allows be out, the puffers will be out most of the time (they are very curious, and tend to watch you a lot in addition to hunting for snails). The shark will make frequent forays from a chosen cave, being mostly visible even when in the cave.

 

[Hound]

Just to chime in. I'd go with the 30 gallon tank myself. As for a filter I was never too happy with my Penguin filter that I had, but have been much happier with a cannister filter. Check them out in the stores, but buying online will probably save you some money. The Fluval 204 would suit a 30 gallon tank and is something like $55 at bigalsonline.com .

As for stocking my choice would be something along the lines of 4 peppered corys, 8 harlequin raspborra, and a pair (male / female) german rams or bolivian rams. A pair of dwarf gourami or african butterfly cichlid would do also. Also if the raspborra aren't to your liking you could replace them with some sort of tetra or guppies or mollies. One thing to keep in mind is that they way a fish will behave in the petstore isn't always what you get when you get them home. When I purchased the harlequin raspborra from the petstore they looked fairly ok and disease free. Within a week of being in my 50g tank they are much more livelier and have better color.

I'm not saying that there are any problems with the dwarf puffers or redtailed shark, but their just not my personal choices.

 

[LuckyJGuy]

Hound: The filter is a Top Fin. A 30 gal is like 25 at petco. What type is the Fluval filter?

OrionGirl: So to get these plants to grow I would just place them near a rock? Also, what kind of bottom feeder would you suggest to go with those fish(the Tiger Barbs, Shark and Puffers). You said to have "visual breaks", does that mean areas where I can see or areas that are blocked by objects? Thanks!