help bringing nitrates down
- Thread starter BadRoma1
- Start date
Well I'm guessing with your filter you will be turning the water over 10times+ so that may not be the problem...........
hope your plan to use a different water will help rid this problem
hope your plan to use a different water will help rid this problem
if you are using bioballs submersed its ok, but if they are out of water, GET rid of them. they do great at converting from ammonia to nitrate, but do nothing from there.
How much liverock is in your tank, and are you running a skimmer?
Once you cure the root of your problem, which i think is your bio-balls, do several large water changes to cut them down. what are you nitrates at currently?
nitrates can be from RO/DI water also, but mainly if you havent changed your filters in a while.
Adding a refugium will help tremendously too if you dont have one.
if youve done everything possible, and its just you have an extremely high bio-load, id recommend a remote DSB in a bucket. It works wonders on alot of peoples tanks.
anyhow HTH's
How much liverock is in your tank, and are you running a skimmer?
Once you cure the root of your problem, which i think is your bio-balls, do several large water changes to cut them down. what are you nitrates at currently?
nitrates can be from RO/DI water also, but mainly if you havent changed your filters in a while.
Adding a refugium will help tremendously too if you dont have one.
if youve done everything possible, and its just you have an extremely high bio-load, id recommend a remote DSB in a bucket. It works wonders on alot of peoples tanks.
anyhow HTH's
Hello there, new to this site, perusing the net as it's late at night.
I have had a similar problem in my 125 gallon tank. Heres the scenario and how it played out.
I have 12 fish, low bio load, 180lbs live, highly porous fiji rock. Up until I fixed the problem, I was using regular unfiltered tap water for salt mix as well as top off. The substrate was crushed aragonite, around 3" in some places. I use a canister filter (magnum 350), an Emperor 400 hang-on, and I was using a sump wet/dry with a ton of bioballs. My salinity was in the 1.024-1.030ish area, temperature around 78-82 (fluctuating temp inside the house.. its hella hot). My filter medias are/were 20 gallon high sump filled with bioballs, emperor 400 with 2 flossiies and 2 carbon pads, and the canister is used to deploy carbon bags and extra flow. I have 5 maxi-jet 1200 powerheads strategically placed for maximum flow, just one single dead spot.
I test my water every day. All of my levels were fine except for the nitrates, which were reading 40ppm+. I had an insane bloom of algae, so I was primarily battling that off. My first course of action was to try and figure out why the algae was going nuts. I tossed in some Phos-Zorb, which is garbage. I replaced that with PhosGuard by seachem, to take away that food source. I also started topping off with distilled water from Meijer. Algae growth still took off over the course of 2 weeks. My nitrates were a steady 40ppm. I decided to take out the bioballs, for fear of overnitrifying bacteria, and began to convert my sump into a fuge. (still waiting on chaeto) Took out my LR and scrubbed/plucked the algae off, and gave them a 4 hour freshwater bath. Algae was still relentless. I replaced all four of my 72" VHO 50/50 // White // blue actinic lights, and added a closed loop manifold. I even performed two 55gallon water changes with RO water over the course of a month. At this point I was stumped. I had tried just about everything, until I thought about it. What was I missing, right before my very eyes? My gravel bed! At 3" depth, I had over 200lbs of aragonite in my tank, along with the highly porous LR. The beneficial bacteria in my tank was now detrimental. It took me a lot of patience and 14 hours of work, but I scooped out all of my aragonite, and replaced it with a soft bed of 40 pounds of brand new Oolitic sand. After each step, my nitrates remained a strong 40ppm immediately after, and a week after implementation, but when I removed my gravel bed, voila 10ppm reading. Its still not where I wanted it to be but it is a whole lot better than it was. My tank Probably has about 2 months worth of 55gallon-every-two-weeks water changes before It is cycled into brand new RO/DI-S (Maxxima Deluxe) water, so by then I expect to have pristine water.
So heres some tips in summary.
-Check the levels every day. (Hagen Master test kit)
-Try to keep the temp at 78d
-strict lighting on timers
-increase water flow (I have 2575gph approx) or 2x the amount needed
-I added carbon, phosphate, and silicate removing compounds. (I HIGHLY reccommend **** Boyd's Chemi-Pure)
-Regular water changes, with 1 gallon a day in general
-Use turkey baster to blow off detritus from rock and substrate
-Buy a brine shrimp net, and RINSE any frozen prepared foods in the net... The juices are like nitrofuel for bad stuff
-I tend to try and limit my bio nitrification to only the rocks, as that is what works for me. Others swear by the dynamic sandbed, but ive only had trouble with it. Instead, I say provide a suitable refugium with either chaetomorphia or caulerpa (chaeto has the benefit of abosrbing nutrients as well as caulerpa, but when the caulerpa dies, it releases the harmful nutrients...so ive heard.) A refugium will do the same thing as beneficial bacteria, but will add dissolved oxygen instead of removing it as bacteria does. Plus you get growth of little yummies for your fish.
-Add in little sand sifters to stir up the substrate and some for algae control. (brittle star, blue leg hermit crab, scarlet hermit, nassaurius snail, Trochus snail, lawnmower blenny, a sea hare slug... they pay off. One turbo snail of 1" size eats a TON of algae, more than you would think.)
-Did I mention use **** boyd's chemi-pure?
-Feed with a turkey baster so as to not contaminate the water with your hands. Ammonia and Phosphorous can be introduced to the tank from a bathroom break or a mcdonalds chicken sandwich (c'mon, get it? the commercial? n'mind)
-Get a Maxxima RO/DI-S system, itll turn you on.
-Theres conflicting reports on using a skimmer, I use one as it makes me feel good inside when I wash out a cup of skimmate. Feels like some equipment is actually working. Plus I have something to fiddle with.
Ok I cant think of anything else right now, its 2:30 in the AM. Hope my post helps some =D
Adam
I have had a similar problem in my 125 gallon tank. Heres the scenario and how it played out.
I have 12 fish, low bio load, 180lbs live, highly porous fiji rock. Up until I fixed the problem, I was using regular unfiltered tap water for salt mix as well as top off. The substrate was crushed aragonite, around 3" in some places. I use a canister filter (magnum 350), an Emperor 400 hang-on, and I was using a sump wet/dry with a ton of bioballs. My salinity was in the 1.024-1.030ish area, temperature around 78-82 (fluctuating temp inside the house.. its hella hot). My filter medias are/were 20 gallon high sump filled with bioballs, emperor 400 with 2 flossiies and 2 carbon pads, and the canister is used to deploy carbon bags and extra flow. I have 5 maxi-jet 1200 powerheads strategically placed for maximum flow, just one single dead spot.
I test my water every day. All of my levels were fine except for the nitrates, which were reading 40ppm+. I had an insane bloom of algae, so I was primarily battling that off. My first course of action was to try and figure out why the algae was going nuts. I tossed in some Phos-Zorb, which is garbage. I replaced that with PhosGuard by seachem, to take away that food source. I also started topping off with distilled water from Meijer. Algae growth still took off over the course of 2 weeks. My nitrates were a steady 40ppm. I decided to take out the bioballs, for fear of overnitrifying bacteria, and began to convert my sump into a fuge. (still waiting on chaeto) Took out my LR and scrubbed/plucked the algae off, and gave them a 4 hour freshwater bath. Algae was still relentless. I replaced all four of my 72" VHO 50/50 // White // blue actinic lights, and added a closed loop manifold. I even performed two 55gallon water changes with RO water over the course of a month. At this point I was stumped. I had tried just about everything, until I thought about it. What was I missing, right before my very eyes? My gravel bed! At 3" depth, I had over 200lbs of aragonite in my tank, along with the highly porous LR. The beneficial bacteria in my tank was now detrimental. It took me a lot of patience and 14 hours of work, but I scooped out all of my aragonite, and replaced it with a soft bed of 40 pounds of brand new Oolitic sand. After each step, my nitrates remained a strong 40ppm immediately after, and a week after implementation, but when I removed my gravel bed, voila 10ppm reading. Its still not where I wanted it to be but it is a whole lot better than it was. My tank Probably has about 2 months worth of 55gallon-every-two-weeks water changes before It is cycled into brand new RO/DI-S (Maxxima Deluxe) water, so by then I expect to have pristine water.
So heres some tips in summary.
-Check the levels every day. (Hagen Master test kit)
-Try to keep the temp at 78d
-strict lighting on timers
-increase water flow (I have 2575gph approx) or 2x the amount needed
-I added carbon, phosphate, and silicate removing compounds. (I HIGHLY reccommend **** Boyd's Chemi-Pure)
-Regular water changes, with 1 gallon a day in general
-Use turkey baster to blow off detritus from rock and substrate
-Buy a brine shrimp net, and RINSE any frozen prepared foods in the net... The juices are like nitrofuel for bad stuff
-I tend to try and limit my bio nitrification to only the rocks, as that is what works for me. Others swear by the dynamic sandbed, but ive only had trouble with it. Instead, I say provide a suitable refugium with either chaetomorphia or caulerpa (chaeto has the benefit of abosrbing nutrients as well as caulerpa, but when the caulerpa dies, it releases the harmful nutrients...so ive heard.) A refugium will do the same thing as beneficial bacteria, but will add dissolved oxygen instead of removing it as bacteria does. Plus you get growth of little yummies for your fish.
-Add in little sand sifters to stir up the substrate and some for algae control. (brittle star, blue leg hermit crab, scarlet hermit, nassaurius snail, Trochus snail, lawnmower blenny, a sea hare slug... they pay off. One turbo snail of 1" size eats a TON of algae, more than you would think.)
-Did I mention use **** boyd's chemi-pure?
-Feed with a turkey baster so as to not contaminate the water with your hands. Ammonia and Phosphorous can be introduced to the tank from a bathroom break or a mcdonalds chicken sandwich (c'mon, get it? the commercial? n'mind)
-Get a Maxxima RO/DI-S system, itll turn you on.
-Theres conflicting reports on using a skimmer, I use one as it makes me feel good inside when I wash out a cup of skimmate. Feels like some equipment is actually working. Plus I have something to fiddle with.
Ok I cant think of anything else right now, its 2:30 in the AM. Hope my post helps some =D
Adam
i brought my nitrates down to 5, but it will go up in a few days i'm sure. yes, i need to work on my send bed, i do some moving around and it has lots of dirt. my ro/di is junk, but the store wil send me a separate nitrate removing filter. they are saying that i have so much of nitrate in my tap water that the unit can't clean it all, but the nitrates always read the same, before and after filter cleans the water. i would want chaeto instead of bio balls, but it needs lights i think. i have sand sifting snails, sand sifting star, and hundreds of miniature brisltle stars and bristle worms, also turbo snails, and a crab. my temperature is 85F because my house is super hot due to problems with air conditioner that air conditioner people have a problem fixing. i'm not at the very good start over here and two of my corals are paying the price. the tenticals of my brain are turning white.
Not that temperature really matters for nitrates, but if you can bring it down a little you may be able to avoid algae bloom. I have a tower fan that I elevated onto a reef crystals bucket (got plenty of those hehe), blowing behind my tank, and built some everyday computer fans into my wood canopy to blow a little air over the surface. Also, if youre having problems with your air conditioner, try turning your A/C off, go outside and unscrew the metal panel that holds the fan onto your A/C unit. Use a garden hose to blast off sediment and debris from the cooling radiator element. I had a similar problem because our realty company mows every week, and I had a thick coat of grass clippings on my unit.
Where do you live that there are lots of nitrates in your tap water? I am in kentucky (I am not a native!) And the only real elements I pick up are small amounts of phosphates and sulphur, and those are trace.
For the chaeto, 24/7 lighting is what is always suggested; and I would imagine that a fuge for a 40 wouldnt typically have to be that big. Personally I overdo everything, so I would tuck away a 20gallon somewhere. You can get a hood fairly cheap if you look for used aquarium equipment in your area, and just install a 50/50 bulb.
Also, make good with the LFS people in your area. As I work at a pet store in my area, im the "fish guy." Sometimes people bring in old equipment like light strips or whatnot that are crusty and dont work, and buy new ones. I offer to fix most of them, people just rather buy new sets, and give me the old. I simply clean off the contacts or replace the starter in them and 90% of them are fine after cleaning the gunk off. I give those "refurbs" away to folks who seem genuinely interested in the hobby. =)
Where do you live that there are lots of nitrates in your tap water? I am in kentucky (I am not a native!) And the only real elements I pick up are small amounts of phosphates and sulphur, and those are trace.
For the chaeto, 24/7 lighting is what is always suggested; and I would imagine that a fuge for a 40 wouldnt typically have to be that big. Personally I overdo everything, so I would tuck away a 20gallon somewhere. You can get a hood fairly cheap if you look for used aquarium equipment in your area, and just install a 50/50 bulb.
Also, make good with the LFS people in your area. As I work at a pet store in my area, im the "fish guy." Sometimes people bring in old equipment like light strips or whatnot that are crusty and dont work, and buy new ones. I offer to fix most of them, people just rather buy new sets, and give me the old. I simply clean off the contacts or replace the starter in them and 90% of them are fine after cleaning the gunk off. I give those "refurbs" away to folks who seem genuinely interested in the hobby. =)
i live in N.J. but the water is different even in close areas. when i was mad about my water, they told me that my water isn't the worst around here, that few miles up the road the water is in a worst shape than mine. o.k. so do i just throw bio balls away and put chaeto instead? i also think that there is several dead spots in my tank too. i moved the sand around but don't know how often that has to be done. i had to do another water change because nitrates jumed back up again. i want to get rid of my sand and go without, but i love all the little kritters that i have hanging around on it. i don't want to move rocks around, because i fear killing my nudibranches that eat aitasia, i just resently discovered that at least one servived the shipment. and i do need to move my rocks around to open dead areas. so i'm thinking what i should do. but for now i need to find cheato and redo my filter system. actually, it looks like since the time i've been doing water changes with wallmart water, the two corals that are sick from this nitrate deal have come around a little, got some color back. i do know one fish store staff really good, but they located so far away. they buy my corals from me and pay me what i ask and want me to work for them. my filter holds about a gallon of water. can i use that for cheato or do i absolutely have to have 20 gallons of water for that? because i'm not very good with building and hooking stuff together, so i wouldn't even begin to know how i hook a 20 g tank so that it would filter the water all the way from the floor. also nobody sells chaeto around here, i have to order it from somewhere.
Ah, New Jersey. Isn't that where the Toxic Avenger is from? Haha. Theres a couple of options you have. I am not a chemist by any means but I cant imagine a RO/DI unit failing due to regional water. However, for instance.. Kent Marine Maxxima RO/DI filter with Silica cartridge filters 99.9% of just about everything, though it is around 200+ dollars. Until you can get one of those, I would do what I did. It kinda sucks, but do the ten gallon-jug lug. omg. I would go to meijer and get the drinking water they sold that said reverse osmosis on it, and a few bottles of distilled water (because they are only 69cents a gallon) and haul the good 10 to 20 gallons of water home. That right there almost drove me to the brink of insanity. So I have 2 RO/DI filters hehe.
As far as chaeto and refugiums go, I am unsure what size you would need for your tank. I am working on two 29 gallon doublestacked fuges, but I always tend to overdo everything in case I want to upgrade or whatever. The basic breakdown of a fuge, is get a container, make it a sump for your DT, toss in chaetomorpha or some other macroalgae of your choice, and add a pump to return the "clean" water. A gallon filter for chaeto *to me* would seem grossly inadequate. I mean, if youve had to, im sure you could use a bucket on a table with a siphon tube and a powerhead, and a light for the most simple version (And if I didnt work at a LFS, with the access to materials that I do, I would use a method similar to this hehe)
Ive seen the use of a 22 gallon rubbermaid tub as a refugium so I am sure the possibilities are endless. You could even use the lid to hold the light, and two holes in it for the siphon tube and the pump tube, and it will just look like a tub sitting next to your tank.
Edit: Oops almost forgot! http://www.macro-algae.com/
As far as chaeto and refugiums go, I am unsure what size you would need for your tank. I am working on two 29 gallon doublestacked fuges, but I always tend to overdo everything in case I want to upgrade or whatever. The basic breakdown of a fuge, is get a container, make it a sump for your DT, toss in chaetomorpha or some other macroalgae of your choice, and add a pump to return the "clean" water. A gallon filter for chaeto *to me* would seem grossly inadequate. I mean, if youve had to, im sure you could use a bucket on a table with a siphon tube and a powerhead, and a light for the most simple version (And if I didnt work at a LFS, with the access to materials that I do, I would use a method similar to this hehe)
Ive seen the use of a 22 gallon rubbermaid tub as a refugium so I am sure the possibilities are endless. You could even use the lid to hold the light, and two holes in it for the siphon tube and the pump tube, and it will just look like a tub sitting next to your tank.
Edit: Oops almost forgot! http://www.macro-algae.com/
one thing that i desided to do is gradualy to remove all the bioballs out of my filter and not use them anymore. as far as chaeto goes, it needs lots of room to work, and i don't have it at the moment. i'll need time with that. not so much that i need time, but i want to see if removing bioballs will do the trick. i also was thinking about buying a bag of live sand in order to create a deeper sand bed and recharge the old one. what do u guys think?
Out of personal experience, I do not like bioballs. Great for jumpstarting a tank I guess, but after that, I took mine out all at once. The way I figure it is that if there is an overabundance of nitrates, that means there is either an overabundance of biospira or dead things. If it isnt the dead things, then start ripping the biomedia out, and that was exactly my first step. I changed em all and now my nitrates are zeroed.
