You have something wrong in your tank if you had nitrate at 20ppm and did a 25% water change and are back to 25ppm already. The first PWC should have taken you down to ~15ppm depending on what you have in your tap. This may mean that your tank is way overstocked or you are feeding way too much.
*HELP* DISCUS sitting on tank bottom
- Thread starter Arkangel77
- Start date
The 2 different Nitrate readings were taken with 2 different test Kits - I don't think the 1st one was accurate (Bottles were dated 06) and I used strips, That's why I posted it was a NEW result from a NEW test kit. It is possible that I could be overstocked BUT I don't know, I did not tink that was the problem but at this point i am lost
PS-
I tested the water samples from last night again for PH and I got the same results after it sat out over night so I guess that my PH is stable coming from the tap?
I gota tell you - I am discouraged BIG TIME. I guess I can start doing MASIVE water changes on a daily basis but this idea just seems like a total shot in the dark. I have kept Reef system in years past with less drama than this. I just wish I could Figure out what I am doing wrong. I try to put a lot of planning and effort into this tank and I hate to see this happening. I still don’t understand why it’s only the larger - Newer fish that are having the problems. Are the Adults more sensitive then the Juveniles?????
I tested the water samples from last night again for PH and I got the same results after it sat out over night so I guess that my PH is stable coming from the tap?
I gota tell you - I am discouraged BIG TIME. I guess I can start doing MASIVE water changes on a daily basis but this idea just seems like a total shot in the dark. I have kept Reef system in years past with less drama than this. I just wish I could Figure out what I am doing wrong. I try to put a lot of planning and effort into this tank and I hate to see this happening. I still don’t understand why it’s only the larger - Newer fish that are having the problems. Are the Adults more sensitive then the Juveniles?????
Hi, can you test the PH of your tank water right before a WC, immediately following a WC, and 24 hrs. after the WC and post results?
Your new posted test results, were all tests with test kits?
Also, what is your stocking level and tank size -- is this the 180 (which looks awesome BTW with all those Discus) you're talking about?
Several times over the years I've observed Discus keeping one fin pinned to its side. Its always wound up being a pre-cursor to a gill fluke break out. Having put new fish in the tank which is stressful for them as well, you COULD be having the start of flukes or something. A possibility, that's all it is at this moment.
Have you tested your tap for nitrates? And have you tested your RO water as well? Is it possible your RO unit is not working properly, maybe you need a new membrane or carbon block? I use straight, unaged tap, so I only know a bit about RO, but these things seem to pop up a lot with RO units not working properly.
Adults aren't more sensitive than juvies, its actually the other way around. The larger, newer fish are the ones that were most stressed, being the newer fish.
Your new posted test results, were all tests with test kits?
Also, what is your stocking level and tank size -- is this the 180 (which looks awesome BTW with all those Discus) you're talking about?
Several times over the years I've observed Discus keeping one fin pinned to its side. Its always wound up being a pre-cursor to a gill fluke break out. Having put new fish in the tank which is stressful for them as well, you COULD be having the start of flukes or something. A possibility, that's all it is at this moment.
Have you tested your tap for nitrates? And have you tested your RO water as well? Is it possible your RO unit is not working properly, maybe you need a new membrane or carbon block? I use straight, unaged tap, so I only know a bit about RO, but these things seem to pop up a lot with RO units not working properly.
Adults aren't more sensitive than juvies, its actually the other way around. The larger, newer fish are the ones that were most stressed, being the newer fish.
Wow, sorry to see you're still having issues Arkangel. I've reread your thread twice and am trying to picture what's going on. First off, Connie is correct about clamped pectoral fin/fins. It can be a sign of flukes. But it usually continues and doesn't start and stop. More questions for you, sorry.....
How does your tank water compare to the water the breeder kept them in?
How does the food you feed them compare to their old diet?
How bright are your lights?
Have you noticed any slight body shimmying by any of them?
How old do you approximate the smaller ones to be?
What additives are you using in the tank water?
Are you running CO2?
For a 180, you're not overstocked as long as your tank maintenance is very good. How much water do you change at maintenance time, and how often do you do this? If you have new liquid tests, can you do a nitrate test on the tap water and let me know what the results are?
How does your tank water compare to the water the breeder kept them in?
How does the food you feed them compare to their old diet?
How bright are your lights?
Have you noticed any slight body shimmying by any of them?
How old do you approximate the smaller ones to be?
What additives are you using in the tank water?
Are you running CO2?
For a 180, you're not overstocked as long as your tank maintenance is very good. How much water do you change at maintenance time, and how often do you do this? If you have new liquid tests, can you do a nitrate test on the tap water and let me know what the results are?
Arkangel sorry this is still going on; I would have bet money that they were just over whelmed by the small guys.
I really don't think it's anything you are doing wrong, so take a deep breath and relax a little. This could happen any one of us at any time and I mean that.
one more question about light which by the way can be a big stressor. Do they get any ambient light before the tank lights come on? do they get the same amount of light that they had in their other tank?
The thing with discus is you can get some that are afraid of their own shadow. I have 4 right now that any movement sends them behind the sponge filter even at feeding time. I take extra time and sit there perfectly still once or twice a week to make sure everything is ok with them but these are small guys 3+"
I don't think you need to do massive water changes yet.
The problem now is that anything we do is going to stress them.
I would like to help you rule out flukes. If you are up to it. Not everyone can do this. It will not harm the fish at all.
if we can rule that out that would leave us with just a stressor to figure out.
1) you need a good magnifying glass or microscope
2) a cotton swab (preferably the kind on a wooden stick) for each gill
(if you use a Q-tip make sure not to leave any strands of cotton on the fish)
you need to take the fish and gently swab the gill then look at it under a microscope is the best but a strong magnifying glass will do.
you are looking for anything that moves or looks like this
.
I really don't think it's anything you are doing wrong, so take a deep breath and relax a little. This could happen any one of us at any time and I mean that.
one more question about light which by the way can be a big stressor. Do they get any ambient light before the tank lights come on? do they get the same amount of light that they had in their other tank?
The thing with discus is you can get some that are afraid of their own shadow. I have 4 right now that any movement sends them behind the sponge filter even at feeding time. I take extra time and sit there perfectly still once or twice a week to make sure everything is ok with them but these are small guys 3+"
I don't think you need to do massive water changes yet.
The problem now is that anything we do is going to stress them.
I would like to help you rule out flukes. If you are up to it. Not everyone can do this. It will not harm the fish at all.
if we can rule that out that would leave us with just a stressor to figure out.
1) you need a good magnifying glass or microscope
2) a cotton swab (preferably the kind on a wooden stick) for each gill
(if you use a Q-tip make sure not to leave any strands of cotton on the fish)
you need to take the fish and gently swab the gill then look at it under a microscope is the best but a strong magnifying glass will do.
you are looking for anything that moves or looks like this
.
poconogal
I can and will do the PH tests you asked me to – today when I get home. ALSO ALL the tests from yesterday were done with new API test Kits.
I have not done Nitrate tests on the NEW water from tap or RO but I can and will.
My Fish are all in the 180 gallon that I posted pic’s of. That’s the tank and those were the fish.
I understand about the stress because of being new. Makes sense.
pinkertd
From what I was told by the breeder he used tap and I think his PH was a LIL bin higher. 7.8 I think.
They were on straight Tetra bits with other food as treat’s from the breeder. I feed Bits every day along with some frozen varieties.
My Lights are reasonably bright but not crazy – I am sure they are a LOT brighter than the breeder’s tanks.
WHAT do you mean body shimmering? I have seen flickering fins and other stuff I thought might be pre matting stuff – no clue as these are my 1st Adults.
I can only guess that the others are perhaps 6 to 9 months and Younger but I don’t know.
I was using discus essentials and RO right but I started cutting back a little. ALSO Vitamins and plant supplements but again was using sparingly and started cutting back about a month ago. WELL below any recommended rates.
I am not running CO2.
I do weekly water changes at 25%. I have bin testing to make sure lvl’s staid in check BUT was with old kit and Strips so my Nitrates may have bin a lil higher than I thought.
I will test the TAP Nitrate lvl’s
Draal5
They do get some light before the tank lights come on But it’s NOT bright. Again I am sure they get more light in my tanks than before – (I guess).
They don’t seem to be overly fear full – I had some in the past that were.
I don’t mind looking for the Flukes But I don’t have a microscope? I can get a medical swab or 20 but I have no way to look closely at the swab????
I hesitate to ask BUT is there any preventative treatment I should consider?
I am on my way home not to start testing and do a 50% water change. I will post results once I have them – Perhaps they will have improved. Work gets in the way of our Hobby and that just stinks – lol !
Thank you all for your help!
Arkangel77
I can and will do the PH tests you asked me to – today when I get home. ALSO ALL the tests from yesterday were done with new API test Kits.
I have not done Nitrate tests on the NEW water from tap or RO but I can and will.
My Fish are all in the 180 gallon that I posted pic’s of. That’s the tank and those were the fish.
I understand about the stress because of being new. Makes sense.
pinkertd
From what I was told by the breeder he used tap and I think his PH was a LIL bin higher. 7.8 I think.
They were on straight Tetra bits with other food as treat’s from the breeder. I feed Bits every day along with some frozen varieties.
My Lights are reasonably bright but not crazy – I am sure they are a LOT brighter than the breeder’s tanks.
WHAT do you mean body shimmering? I have seen flickering fins and other stuff I thought might be pre matting stuff – no clue as these are my 1st Adults.
I can only guess that the others are perhaps 6 to 9 months and Younger but I don’t know.
I was using discus essentials and RO right but I started cutting back a little. ALSO Vitamins and plant supplements but again was using sparingly and started cutting back about a month ago. WELL below any recommended rates.
I am not running CO2.
I do weekly water changes at 25%. I have bin testing to make sure lvl’s staid in check BUT was with old kit and Strips so my Nitrates may have bin a lil higher than I thought.
I will test the TAP Nitrate lvl’s
Draal5
They do get some light before the tank lights come on But it’s NOT bright. Again I am sure they get more light in my tanks than before – (I guess).
They don’t seem to be overly fear full – I had some in the past that were.
I don’t mind looking for the Flukes But I don’t have a microscope? I can get a medical swab or 20 but I have no way to look closely at the swab????
I hesitate to ask BUT is there any preventative treatment I should consider?
I am on my way home not to start testing and do a 50% water change. I will post results once I have them – Perhaps they will have improved. Work gets in the way of our Hobby and that just stinks – lol !
Thank you all for your help!
Arkangel77
OK - Just walked threw the door. 3 of the BIG 5 (2 melons and 1 Dominant Snake) look much better today. The snake ate again when I got home and the Melons looked like they were intrested which is better. The other snake and Turn still look roughf and were not intrested in food. I am going to do my test and the 50% water change I said I would. Will post results lata.
It's possible a couple of things are going on.
You are only changing 45 gallons out of 180 each week, and I don't think that is not enough with that many discus. At a minimum I would recommend two water changes of 25% each week especially with young growing discus. My adults get a 80% water change out in my 72G once a week now. I take the water down until their dorsal fins are sticking out of the water. When they were younger, it was twice a week. You may not have high nitrates compared to what is acceptable, but you've got a lot of dissolved organics in that water with discus. Discus don't always like changing to a different source water than what they are used to. But if it is clean and fresh, they will adjust. They may even flash from the difference in mineral levels from one water source to another. They have a lot of body surface exposed to that water! This could explain some of the hiding and keeping their fins kind of "closed".
Good to cut back on the RO for now. Your tap water should be fine for them. Cut out the vitamins and plant supplements. There's a lot in your water that they were never exposed to before and with bright lights, they could be stressing big time.
Lights.....while some discus will get used to bright lights, they really don't like it. Did I say they really don't like it? Try to cut down on the lights, I think you'll see a big difference in their attitude and shyness.
Many times when you bring new discus in to new water, it induces spawning behavior. So some of this attitude could be going on. They will shimmy their bodies intermittently, like a shiver. And this will definitely cause aggression and chasing. Usually it's the females chasing away other females from "their" man.
It seems you changed their diet a lot by adding black worms and said you were feeding a lot of black worms. It's possible their diet is too rich creating digestive problems or something wasn't quite right with the worms. Digestive problems would be my first suspicion to have seen one down on the bottoms like that after having seemed fine earlier on. Since they are not eating right now, I would be very tempted to put the large ones you're having issues with in a hospital tank filled with their tank water, and add epsom salts to the water to clean their intestinal tract out. I would cut out the pellets and the black worms and feed them on flake and frozen bloodworms for right now and see how it goes.
You are only changing 45 gallons out of 180 each week, and I don't think that is not enough with that many discus. At a minimum I would recommend two water changes of 25% each week especially with young growing discus. My adults get a 80% water change out in my 72G once a week now. I take the water down until their dorsal fins are sticking out of the water. When they were younger, it was twice a week. You may not have high nitrates compared to what is acceptable, but you've got a lot of dissolved organics in that water with discus. Discus don't always like changing to a different source water than what they are used to. But if it is clean and fresh, they will adjust. They may even flash from the difference in mineral levels from one water source to another. They have a lot of body surface exposed to that water! This could explain some of the hiding and keeping their fins kind of "closed".
Good to cut back on the RO for now. Your tap water should be fine for them. Cut out the vitamins and plant supplements. There's a lot in your water that they were never exposed to before and with bright lights, they could be stressing big time.
Lights.....while some discus will get used to bright lights, they really don't like it. Did I say they really don't like it? Try to cut down on the lights, I think you'll see a big difference in their attitude and shyness.
Many times when you bring new discus in to new water, it induces spawning behavior. So some of this attitude could be going on. They will shimmy their bodies intermittently, like a shiver. And this will definitely cause aggression and chasing. Usually it's the females chasing away other females from "their" man.
It seems you changed their diet a lot by adding black worms and said you were feeding a lot of black worms. It's possible their diet is too rich creating digestive problems or something wasn't quite right with the worms. Digestive problems would be my first suspicion to have seen one down on the bottoms like that after having seemed fine earlier on. Since they are not eating right now, I would be very tempted to put the large ones you're having issues with in a hospital tank filled with their tank water, and add epsom salts to the water to clean their intestinal tract out. I would cut out the pellets and the black worms and feed them on flake and frozen bloodworms for right now and see how it goes.
