also, it's worth noting that plants seem to make just about any tank a bit more stable regardless of substrate.
HELP - Great Tank Die-off
- Thread starter wiEngineer
- Start date
Minor Update:
No deaths since the last water change after the black neon tetra died (about 10 hours). Everybody looks happy right now, although they are sleeping for the most part (1am here).
I also changed out the filter medium in the magnum 350 that I use for mechanical filtration and put in 16 oz of activated charcoal (usually it's just filled with floss). I also run a fluval XP3 as a biological filter. I don't know if the charcoal is helping or even will help, but I figured it couldn't hurt of there was some kind of a chemical or other toxin that the tests werent detecting.
I also removed all of the large pieces of lava rock that I had in the tank as decoration. I'm going to boil it tomorrow on the off chance something evil is lurking within it. The pieces are about 12" in diameter so there are lots of pores for things to dwell in I guess.
Finally, I raised the tank temp to 82 from its normal 74 hoping to boil of any pathogens that might be lurking. I'll lower it back down in a day or three.
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Currently, this tank is unplanted. Getting plants in this town is very difficult because all of the fish stores have absolutely DREADFUL plant stock that is also very expensive. It's usually so full of snails and black algae infestations that your tank ends up looking awful.
That said, as soon as I can get some more-pristine stock (and stabilize this die-off of course), I am planning to plant the tank.
On the topic of substrates, I've found sand, while it looks REALLY nice, to just be too much of a hassle to keep cleaned. I've found that with gravel, whether large or small grained, it is much easier to work with (doesn't get sucked into the gravel vac). Of course, that really only applies to freshwater tanks. I have a 120G reef tank at the office that has a very nice deep sand bed both in the tank and in the 40G breeder it uses for a sump. The clean-up critters there serve to keep it looking good.
I've never heard of any issues that magicly crop up with large-grain gravel beds over small. I have heard that a freshwater tank that has sand that is too deep (over 3 inches or so) can lead to problems with toxins building up in certain areas (whereas in a marine tank, the various critters serve to stir it up so you go 5" or so for a DSB). I have no real evidence of this, just ghost stories told late at night around the fishtank.
If there are any more thoughts or ideas, I'd love to hear them. I plan to do another 25% water change out tomorrow (I've always used slightly salted water, about 1tbs/10g), but I'm trying to avoid dosing the tank with any chemicals/
No deaths since the last water change after the black neon tetra died (about 10 hours). Everybody looks happy right now, although they are sleeping for the most part (1am here).
I also changed out the filter medium in the magnum 350 that I use for mechanical filtration and put in 16 oz of activated charcoal (usually it's just filled with floss). I also run a fluval XP3 as a biological filter. I don't know if the charcoal is helping or even will help, but I figured it couldn't hurt of there was some kind of a chemical or other toxin that the tests werent detecting.
I also removed all of the large pieces of lava rock that I had in the tank as decoration. I'm going to boil it tomorrow on the off chance something evil is lurking within it. The pieces are about 12" in diameter so there are lots of pores for things to dwell in I guess.
Finally, I raised the tank temp to 82 from its normal 74 hoping to boil of any pathogens that might be lurking. I'll lower it back down in a day or three.
---
Currently, this tank is unplanted. Getting plants in this town is very difficult because all of the fish stores have absolutely DREADFUL plant stock that is also very expensive. It's usually so full of snails and black algae infestations that your tank ends up looking awful.
That said, as soon as I can get some more-pristine stock (and stabilize this die-off of course), I am planning to plant the tank.
On the topic of substrates, I've found sand, while it looks REALLY nice, to just be too much of a hassle to keep cleaned. I've found that with gravel, whether large or small grained, it is much easier to work with (doesn't get sucked into the gravel vac). Of course, that really only applies to freshwater tanks. I have a 120G reef tank at the office that has a very nice deep sand bed both in the tank and in the 40G breeder it uses for a sump. The clean-up critters there serve to keep it looking good.
I've never heard of any issues that magicly crop up with large-grain gravel beds over small. I have heard that a freshwater tank that has sand that is too deep (over 3 inches or so) can lead to problems with toxins building up in certain areas (whereas in a marine tank, the various critters serve to stir it up so you go 5" or so for a DSB). I have no real evidence of this, just ghost stories told late at night around the fishtank.
If there are any more thoughts or ideas, I'd love to hear them. I plan to do another 25% water change out tomorrow (I've always used slightly salted water, about 1tbs/10g), but I'm trying to avoid dosing the tank with any chemicals/
i would stay away from chemicals. that's my personal view, and you seem to share it in that it's a last resort. keep doing water changes and keep close watch. i think you're doing the right things, though i wouldn't have raised the temperature so dramatically. i would have advised "stepping it up" a little at a time, though in a 55g, at least the change won't happen instantaneously.
i wouldn't think the lava rock is the problem, nor do i think the large gravel is the issue here. as i said, i think it is probably a coincedence more than anything else. what's your ph?
i wouldn't think the lava rock is the problem, nor do i think the large gravel is the issue here. as i said, i think it is probably a coincedence more than anything else. what's your ph?
lava and biofiltration
That lava rock may be a major help to your filtration. Those pores are full of bacteria.
When was the last new purchase added to this tank? Could you have brought in some parasite or disease with a new fish?
That lava rock may be a major help to your filtration. Those pores are full of bacteria.
When was the last new purchase added to this tank? Could you have brought in some parasite or disease with a new fish?
Update:
Lost another clown loach and 2 more tetras (a neon and a black neon).
The loach was literally swimming around fine with the other remaining clown loach mere minutes before I found it dead.
If I lose any more by the time I get home from work tomorrow, I think I'll have to either resort to chemical treatments or be prepared to write the entire tank off.
As for something riding in, it's possible. I added 5 black neon tetras about 2 weeks ago to the already 5 I had (from the same LFS). It's possible they were the culprit, but I talked to the LFS I got them from and their stock is doing fine.
*sigh*
Lost another clown loach and 2 more tetras (a neon and a black neon).
The loach was literally swimming around fine with the other remaining clown loach mere minutes before I found it dead.
If I lose any more by the time I get home from work tomorrow, I think I'll have to either resort to chemical treatments or be prepared to write the entire tank off.
As for something riding in, it's possible. I added 5 black neon tetras about 2 weeks ago to the already 5 I had (from the same LFS). It's possible they were the culprit, but I talked to the LFS I got them from and their stock is doing fine.
*sigh*
after such high losses i think i would consider moving everything to another tank or container and stripping the tank down to nothing and re-building, boiling gravel and rocks, changing the filter cartridges and cleaning the filter, 100% new water. chemicals might just add to a bad mix of things and make matters worse in the situation you have at the moment. who knows what you're dealing with?
Here's an update:
I haven't had any deaths for about 48 hours. I'm doing once-daily water changes of 10 gallons (about 15-20%) and keeping the temp at 82 through the end of the week.
All told, I lost: 2 Red Velvet Swords (1M and 1F), 2 clown loaches, a male beta, 1 rubber-lipped Pleco, 2 albino cories, 1 harliquin and maybe 10 to 12 various small tetras. Interestingly, I didn't lose a single rummy-nosed tetra (I have 6) nor any black or white-skirt tetras (4 of each).
I suspect this is probably not over, but at least they aren't dropping like flies any more.
I haven't had any deaths for about 48 hours. I'm doing once-daily water changes of 10 gallons (about 15-20%) and keeping the temp at 82 through the end of the week.
All told, I lost: 2 Red Velvet Swords (1M and 1F), 2 clown loaches, a male beta, 1 rubber-lipped Pleco, 2 albino cories, 1 harliquin and maybe 10 to 12 various small tetras. Interestingly, I didn't lose a single rummy-nosed tetra (I have 6) nor any black or white-skirt tetras (4 of each).
I suspect this is probably not over, but at least they aren't dropping like flies any more.
Cleaning?
Some questions:
Are you married? Does your wife/husband do the cleaning in the room with the aquarium? Is it possible that an airborn toxin is getting into the aquarium that way?
Have you put in new carpet recently -- carpet fumes may be the culprit.
Do you smoke? Inside the house?
Call your water company and ask about chlorine/chloramine usage. Have they recently added something? Increased the dosage?
Frankly the "large gravel" theory sounds preposterous to me.
Some questions:
Are you married? Does your wife/husband do the cleaning in the room with the aquarium? Is it possible that an airborn toxin is getting into the aquarium that way?
Have you put in new carpet recently -- carpet fumes may be the culprit.
Do you smoke? Inside the house?
Call your water company and ask about chlorine/chloramine usage. Have they recently added something? Increased the dosage?
Frankly the "large gravel" theory sounds preposterous to me.
Quarantine
Let's go back to the obvious.
Adding fish to a rather fully stocked aquarium with no quarantine time.
No pretreatments to knock off parasites, like a quick salt dip would have done.
No 4 weeks of observation, to see if the newcomers were full or worms or parsites that killed them.
BTW, how many fish did you have in this 55 gallon tank?
Let's go back to the obvious.
Adding fish to a rather fully stocked aquarium with no quarantine time.
No pretreatments to knock off parasites, like a quick salt dip would have done.
No 4 weeks of observation, to see if the newcomers were full or worms or parsites that killed them.
BTW, how many fish did you have in this 55 gallon tank?
