I didn't cycle the tank at all TBH as it had no fish in it at all. My plan was to grow out the plants and then add fish. So I didn't bother even trying to cycle the tank. The plants don't care. The bioload of the snails in there is minimal. I'll test my tap water and see what I find.
Help! I'm growing algae!!
- Thread starter chinnp
- Start date
Ok. Had a chance to do more testing. After doing a 50% water change this morning I tested my tap water vs my tank water. Tank now measures 10-20 ppm and my tap water measures 5 ppm.It would certainly appear that this tank has cycled itself after a month with just a handful of snails. I can't think of any other source. I'm dosing EI, but that doesn't involve dosing nitrate I don't think.
Full EI involves dosing KNO3 3 times a week @ 10ppm each dose. If no Nitrates are used this will give you a long term equilibrium of nitrates around 60 ppm (with 50% water changes) before fish food and rotting plant matter is included. Of course with plants some of the nitrates are used and with a stock of one betta recently added, some of your nitrates are being used. First question is does 40 ppm pose a problem? IME, the answer is no. Algae is fantastic at scavenging nutrients (and require a whole lot less than plants). My observations suggest most people believe that nutrients play a much bigger role than they I've ever been able to observe in my tanks. Could you cut back? Probably you can, for two reasons. First reason is you have a very low plant mass (for a "planted aquarium"). Its mathematically impossible for the plant mass you have, to have such a high demand for nutrients. Second reason is your testing results show a reading that is higher than absolutely necessary. The kicker here is, generally speaking, you probably shouldn't trust a "hobby" test kit very much. They're really not that accurate. Even lab grade test kits are calibrated before testing is done, did you calibrate yours? Do I believe your nitrate (or any other nutrient) level is the source of your problems? In a word, no.
What are the source of your problems?
1. New tank. All planted tanks go through an algae phase. Algae flourishes in unstable conditions. New tanks provide this. Fluctuating ammonia levels (and who knows what else) are a norm when you are dealing with new filters, changing bioloads, etc. To get by this takes elbow grease and patience. Eliminate algae as it grows manually, treat filters with extra caution, and know it's going to end.
2. Light. There always seems to be someone who can make something work, but I think you'd be hard put to find a successful planted tank that gets 15 hours of light. Somewhere around 8 is much more workable. I'm also curious about the intensity of light you have. Watts aren't very descriptive. 240 watts of incandescent isn't enough, 240 watts of t5HO with individual reflectors is way too much (or at least way more then needed).
3. Plant mass. All life forms try to dominate a system. Right now the plants and the algae are competing over which will dominate your tank. I'd increase your plant mass by a factor of 3. Fast growing plants preferred. Fast growing plants reflect good conditions quickly with new healthy growth. They can easily be pruned to eliminate algae. As the tank matures (stabilizes), plants can be eliminated and/or replaced by preferred species. Plant mass (or lack thereof) seems to play a large role in a successful planted tank start up, irregardless, of nutrient levels. Remember to keep your dosing consistent with your growth rates. You shouldn't need to add more nutrients then you are, but if you add bunches of fast growing plants, you probably shouldn't reduce them.
4. CO2. If your tank is high growth, you have to have good steady supply. If your tank is low growth, you need a steady supply. Get this fixed.
I realize a lot of this has already been suggested, just wanted to put it all together for you. Good luck.
What are the source of your problems?
1. New tank. All planted tanks go through an algae phase. Algae flourishes in unstable conditions. New tanks provide this. Fluctuating ammonia levels (and who knows what else) are a norm when you are dealing with new filters, changing bioloads, etc. To get by this takes elbow grease and patience. Eliminate algae as it grows manually, treat filters with extra caution, and know it's going to end.
2. Light. There always seems to be someone who can make something work, but I think you'd be hard put to find a successful planted tank that gets 15 hours of light. Somewhere around 8 is much more workable. I'm also curious about the intensity of light you have. Watts aren't very descriptive. 240 watts of incandescent isn't enough, 240 watts of t5HO with individual reflectors is way too much (or at least way more then needed).
3. Plant mass. All life forms try to dominate a system. Right now the plants and the algae are competing over which will dominate your tank. I'd increase your plant mass by a factor of 3. Fast growing plants preferred. Fast growing plants reflect good conditions quickly with new healthy growth. They can easily be pruned to eliminate algae. As the tank matures (stabilizes), plants can be eliminated and/or replaced by preferred species. Plant mass (or lack thereof) seems to play a large role in a successful planted tank start up, irregardless, of nutrient levels. Remember to keep your dosing consistent with your growth rates. You shouldn't need to add more nutrients then you are, but if you add bunches of fast growing plants, you probably shouldn't reduce them.
4. CO2. If your tank is high growth, you have to have good steady supply. If your tank is low growth, you need a steady supply. Get this fixed.
I realize a lot of this has already been suggested, just wanted to put it all together for you. Good luck.
Since this is my 3rd attempt at a planted tank and I've got more resources than I had before I'm willing to try just about anything that seems reasonable. I had never considered that I had low plant mass. I guess because I never considered my plant mass to be low in the first place.
Here's the tank as of today. This is after a week of lights out - https://www.dropbox.com/s/6js6fa3l7qunlc7/2012-11-11 09.22.30.jpg
The betta can be seen scrounging around on the right hand side by the heater that fell off the side of the tank. The brown algae is completely gone. The scum and hair algae remains. I wasn't sure if my best bet was manually removing it or stopping whatever is causing it and letting it die out. So to address your list.
1. Honestly hadn't considered this. I've been keeping fish for 10 years, but it's been years and years since I've had a true new tank. I've always seeded a filter weeks in advance on an existing tank, slapped it on a new one and voila! Instant cycled tank. Sure you might run into a few hiccups, but with a light bio-load you hit minimal problems. Your comments about this being a new tank are hitting the nail on the head as I did none of that here.
2. I've got two fixtures on the tank - A t5 130w and a 110w CF. This is the 130 w. I've had the 110w forever (got it on a previous attempt at a planted tank) so I don't have any specs on it as far as any reflectors and I'm not sure exactly what to look for TBH. I've dialed down the photoperiod to around 8 hours as everyone seems to agree that 15 is entirely too long. No problem with doing that.
3. I posted a link of the tank earlier. It never even occurred to me that I had low plant mass. Looking at what I've got now do you stand by that assessment? If so, it's entirely possible that is my problem. There may simply not be enough plants to out-compete the algae. That makes sense to me. I get paid Friday and can easily raid Petco, Petsmart and the local LFS for plants though I'm not entirely sure what specific species I should be looking for? Does it really matter? Do I just want plants that are aesthetically appealing to me or are there some that I should completely avoid? I know I should avoid bamboo since it's not really aquatic. Beyond that are there plants I should completely avoid?
This is a pic of the two main plants in the tank besides the hairgrass and the anachris - https://www.dropbox.com/s/6eyw9zpjr3opurl/2012-11-11 09.22.03.jpg. Maybe you can identify them. I think the one with the long stems and big leafs in the foreground is some sort of sword plant and the other is a type of crypt, but I may be completely and totally wrong. The one closer to the cave was purchased in of those tubes packed with gel and has only recently begun to really open up. The others are relics of a former failed attempt at planting.
4. Definitely agree on the co2. This has been my highest priority. I've been working with Milwaukee tech support to iron out exactly what is wrong with my regulator and ph controller. At times it delivers exactly what I expect and at other times nothing at all. I'm working out the kinks in this before stocking the tank.
Here's the tank as of today. This is after a week of lights out - https://www.dropbox.com/s/6js6fa3l7qunlc7/2012-11-11 09.22.30.jpg
The betta can be seen scrounging around on the right hand side by the heater that fell off the side of the tank. The brown algae is completely gone. The scum and hair algae remains. I wasn't sure if my best bet was manually removing it or stopping whatever is causing it and letting it die out. So to address your list.
1. Honestly hadn't considered this. I've been keeping fish for 10 years, but it's been years and years since I've had a true new tank. I've always seeded a filter weeks in advance on an existing tank, slapped it on a new one and voila! Instant cycled tank. Sure you might run into a few hiccups, but with a light bio-load you hit minimal problems. Your comments about this being a new tank are hitting the nail on the head as I did none of that here.
2. I've got two fixtures on the tank - A t5 130w and a 110w CF. This is the 130 w. I've had the 110w forever (got it on a previous attempt at a planted tank) so I don't have any specs on it as far as any reflectors and I'm not sure exactly what to look for TBH. I've dialed down the photoperiod to around 8 hours as everyone seems to agree that 15 is entirely too long. No problem with doing that.
3. I posted a link of the tank earlier. It never even occurred to me that I had low plant mass. Looking at what I've got now do you stand by that assessment? If so, it's entirely possible that is my problem. There may simply not be enough plants to out-compete the algae. That makes sense to me. I get paid Friday and can easily raid Petco, Petsmart and the local LFS for plants though I'm not entirely sure what specific species I should be looking for? Does it really matter? Do I just want plants that are aesthetically appealing to me or are there some that I should completely avoid? I know I should avoid bamboo since it's not really aquatic. Beyond that are there plants I should completely avoid?
This is a pic of the two main plants in the tank besides the hairgrass and the anachris - https://www.dropbox.com/s/6eyw9zpjr3opurl/2012-11-11 09.22.03.jpg. Maybe you can identify them. I think the one with the long stems and big leafs in the foreground is some sort of sword plant and the other is a type of crypt, but I may be completely and totally wrong. The one closer to the cave was purchased in of those tubes packed with gel and has only recently begun to really open up. The others are relics of a former failed attempt at planting.
4. Definitely agree on the co2. This has been my highest priority. I've been working with Milwaukee tech support to iron out exactly what is wrong with my regulator and ph controller. At times it delivers exactly what I expect and at other times nothing at all. I'm working out the kinks in this before stocking the tank.
The scapes aren't anything that you would want to copy but as a example this is heavily planted...
This tank (in this photo) has just had most of the plants trimmed back (excluding the cabomba)...
I'd call in the heavy end of moderate. In the long run, when your tank is stable you can go lighter than these examples but for the time being my experience is that heavily planted tanks seem to be easier to handle. Compare pics of "planted tanks" that you find on the web to yours, I don't think yours would be described as anymore than lightly planted. Just my opinion. Obviously yours will fill in as the plants grow, but I think you'll find it easier if you don't wait.
It doesn't much matter in the short term what you plant it with. I'd get a lot of easy plants for the time being. You're looking for growth rates above all and you can eliminate or substitute as time goes on. Anachris is a go easy fast grower. Look for hygrophilias, ludwigia, hornwort, floating plants to name a few. If you're not sure it's a true aquatic, leave it at the store, you don't need anymore problems at this point.
The crypt is pontederifolia. Not sure on the other one, could be a sword, leaves make it look like hygro. corymbosa compact, but that would have a stem and is not a rosette type plant.
As far as light, one parabolic reflector for each bulb is very efficient (provides lots of light), a reflector covering two or more bulbs is less efficient due to restrike (light hitting the bulbs). Some fixtures don't have reflectors at all, meaning light is not redirected into the tank and are the least efficient. Based on your description, you should have lots of light. I was just commenting on your description of your light intensity being a little vague. I've observed most people seem to start with more light than they need.
Good Luck.
This tank (in this photo) has just had most of the plants trimmed back (excluding the cabomba)...
I'd call in the heavy end of moderate. In the long run, when your tank is stable you can go lighter than these examples but for the time being my experience is that heavily planted tanks seem to be easier to handle. Compare pics of "planted tanks" that you find on the web to yours, I don't think yours would be described as anymore than lightly planted. Just my opinion. Obviously yours will fill in as the plants grow, but I think you'll find it easier if you don't wait.
It doesn't much matter in the short term what you plant it with. I'd get a lot of easy plants for the time being. You're looking for growth rates above all and you can eliminate or substitute as time goes on. Anachris is a go easy fast grower. Look for hygrophilias, ludwigia, hornwort, floating plants to name a few. If you're not sure it's a true aquatic, leave it at the store, you don't need anymore problems at this point.
The crypt is pontederifolia. Not sure on the other one, could be a sword, leaves make it look like hygro. corymbosa compact, but that would have a stem and is not a rosette type plant.
As far as light, one parabolic reflector for each bulb is very efficient (provides lots of light), a reflector covering two or more bulbs is less efficient due to restrike (light hitting the bulbs). Some fixtures don't have reflectors at all, meaning light is not redirected into the tank and are the least efficient. Based on your description, you should have lots of light. I was just commenting on your description of your light intensity being a little vague. I've observed most people seem to start with more light than they need.
Good Luck.
I will look for all of those plants when I go on my plant hunt on Friday. For this week I'll probably cut the photoperiod down and skip the ferts. Just try to hang in a holding pattern. On Saturday when I do my maintenance I'll pull out all the algae I can and work from there.
Sounds like a plan. Just make sure you get that tank cycled before adding anymore livestock. Since you are going CO2, it will take a little time for you to find that balance for your plants to thrive without growing algae. You just have to have patience during the trial and error period.
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Just wanted to give an update on this. The main problem I was running into on my co2 delivery was my PH controller. Ran around in circles with Milwaukee and found that I bought a PH controller designed to used for calcium reactor on a SW tank. It's not designed for a co2 system. So I am having to order the right one. My plan is to get the PH controller on Tuesday. Give it a couple of days to test out, then, once I know it's working, get more plants and start dosing ferts.
