help me setup a 150 reef tank!

stingray4540

stingray4540

Hello, Hello, Helloooo!
Oct 18, 2005
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San Jose, CA
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Hi all,
I am an experienced freshwater aquarist, but I just recently acquired a 150 gallon tank for my dad and he wants to do a reef in it.
I know NOTHING about saltwater, so please help.
here is what I have:
tank, stand, 200 and 250w heaters, two filters that look like powerheads with sponge attachments on the intake, lots of gravel.
So, what do I need to get started with a reef? and what is it going to cost? or where is the best place to get stuff pricewise?

Some things I think I need:
protein skimmer, live rock, live sand, salt mix do I need the lights that get supper hot? or can I just use special flourescent bulbs?
Also, how do you even cycle a saltwater tank? Once it's cycled do I add the fish first or the liverock and reef first?

Like I said, I know nothing about saltwater and need all the help I can get. I will probably post about fish selection and creepy crawlies later, right now I just need to get started.
 
Cost? As high as you want it.

First, You need to decide exactly what kind of set up you want, i.e., deep sand bed, bare bottom or just an inch or so of sand? The first thing people will tell you is to get rid of the gravel. If you do decide to go with sand, then you will want to get, if possible a "sugar-sized" calcium carbonate based sand. You will also be advised by people to stay away from crushed coral for a substrate. A lot of people use "play sand" because it is cheaper and the calcium carbonate stuff is sometimes difficult to find in places, cheaply (but play sand is silica sand, just fyi). Myself, I use sandblasting sand for a 5-6 inch substrate with an inch or so of "Aragalive" sand on top of it.

For a reef, you will need "live rock" which can be very expensive. Good LFS carry it and you can also buy it via the internet. You will be advised to stock about 1-2 pounds of live rock per gallon of water. You can buy all live rock or you can buy a "base" rock (no life and a lot cheaper) and mix it in with the live rock. This base rock will then eventually turn into live rock (after months, generally) from being in with the live rock. I suggest to stock/arrange it so it is pleasing to look at for you. Don't really worry about the 1-2 pounds per gallon rule.

This rock and sand mixture then becomes your "bacterial" filtration. You then need no other bacterial filtration (such as wet/dry or canister, etc.) although you can still use mechanical filtration (but, seems most do not). Most people will advise that you get/use a "good" protein skimmer. You should also buy/use an R/O (reverse osmosis) system to purify your water.

Lighting depends entirely on what you want to grow in your tank as far as corals go. Your light loving corals need lots of light and a lot of people use metal halides (1 for every 2 feet of aquarium). But a lot of people still use VHO lights and now "t5's" and compact flourescents. You will have to decide on what you want. Normal flourescent lights are just not conducive to reef tanks and most corals.

If you buy live rock/sand, then cycle your tank with it. Normal cycles take up to about 6 weeks time, but sometimes can be shortened with good cycling procedures.

Just a little something to think about. It can be lots of money, running into the 1000's for all of the new technology pieces, new corals, rock, etc. But there are places where you can trim the budget, i.e., base rock, quite a bit.

So, before you actually make your decision, do some reading and question asking along the way. It will be cheaper to know exactly what you want/how you want to do it before you start buying things on impulse.

One last thing. In saltwater aquaria, patience is a virtue. The saying is, only bad things happen fast, while good things take a while.

So good luck in your decisions. Frank
 
Thanks for the response, although it leaves me with some questions.

1st: I would probably want to do a deep sand bed. I can use playsand, I don't need livesand? That would be cool. What is aragalive and what benifits does a calcium carbonate sand have over silica sand.

2nd: Do I need to do anything to keep live rock "alive" other than provide light?

3rd: So I can get away without any filteration sistem? Cool!

4th: The r/o system, is that for water changes or used as a filter to constantly run the tank water through. Either way, doesn't the r/o process take away needed minerals and stuff that will need to be added?

5th: So, I should get metal halide lights if I want to do a reef? Are those the ones that get hot, so I will need a chiller? If so, do I even need a heater?

6th: as far as the cycle, so you're saying just put in some live rock and let it sit for a month? Is saltwater bacteria different from freshwater or could I use some cycled filter media from my freshwater to cycle the tank?

7th: as far as protien skimmers go, are they like filters, they are different depending on the size of the tank or are they generally one size fits all? I may be able to get a protien skimmer from a friend for $100 but I don't know if it needs to be a certain size or capacity.
 
stingray4540 said:
Thanks for the response, although it leaves me with some questions.

1st: I would probably want to do a deep sand bed. I can use playsand, I don't need livesand? That would be cool. What is aragalive and what benifits does a calcium carbonate sand have over silica sand.

2nd: Do I need to do anything to keep live rock "alive" other than provide light?

3rd: So I can get away without any filteration sistem? Cool!

4th: The r/o system, is that for water changes or used as a filter to constantly run the tank water through. Either way, doesn't the r/o process take away needed minerals and stuff that will need to be added?

5th: So, I should get metal halide lights if I want to do a reef? Are those the ones that get hot, so I will need a chiller? If so, do I even need a heater?

6th: as far as the cycle, so you're saying just put in some live rock and let it sit for a month? Is saltwater bacteria different from freshwater or could I use some cycled filter media from my freshwater to cycle the tank?

7th: as far as protien skimmers go, are they like filters, they are different depending on the size of the tank or are they generally one size fits all? I may be able to get a protien skimmer from a friend for $100 but I don't know if it needs to be a certain size or capacity.
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Hey, I'm a newbie too. But I'll stick my nickel in here and try and help.

1. There's a large variety of different types of sand that you can get for your tank. The Aragalive sand is sand that actually has the live bacteria in it already when you add it to your tank. This supposedly will speed up the cycling time. Don't count on it, it will help, but don't rush. Be careful what sand you add because it will effect the water quality for the tank. I'd recommend live sand.

2. Nothing needed to keep the sand or rock alive aside from decent water quality and a regular day/night light cycle.

3. To filter or not? I'd strongly encourage you to get a filter, but get a wet/dry sump. If you need to add a chiller or even just a protein skimmer, it is better to do it at the sump. I didn't because I started to build a freshwater tank and changed at the last minute. Now I have a ton of crap hanging off the back of my tank. Better to overfilter then to have your tank go belly up.

4. R/O is for making your own Saltwater. Corals are very sensitive to water quality, so it is good to have a very reliable, clean source of water for your tank. R/O water insures this for the most part. In lieu of this, you could also see if you have a source for pre-made SW or if your local fish store sells R\O water. This equipment is expensive and I've heard that if the pipes in your home aren't up to, the pressure from R/O will cause them to burst. Never seen this, don't know if it's true, but I do know it's expensive.

5. Don't rush to metal halide without doing some research on what types of coral and other livestock you want to add. After all, if you add coral that doesn't like high intensity lighting, you may be stuck. Take a look at VHO or T5, they're cheaper and have some more options. Also, they come in combinations.

6. Yes, let it sit for a month with some type of water movement going. If you setup a Wet/Dry, you'll want to skim water out and then push it back in. The input will add some movement to your water as will the Powerheads that you have. The water movement is very important. And no, you cannot use your freshwater stuff, but you shouldn't need to.

7. Protein skimmers simulate the frothing action you see at the beach when waves break on the shore. It removes excess protein from teh water. Various types of skimmers exist. I'd suggest looking for a skimmer that would fit in a sump and get one that is rated for higher then your tank volume. It's always a good idea to error on the side of caution.

Also, take a look at the Dr Foster Smith website (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/). They've got lots of stuff and some good articles on how to do things.

Good luck.
 
Stingray, skiff is right on with his answers. To elaborate on a couple:

1. Calcium carbonate has a couple of features that aquariusts like. One, it is generally very white/bright in color. Most people like that. Two, as the ph (I think that is the right term-I get them mixed up sometimes) goes down, it is supposed to be over 8, maybe 8.2 or .3 or something like that, it supposedly dissolves (buffers) to help keep the ph a little higher which is good for the corals. There is some debate as to how much this helps, but most people try to get/use it.

Playsand is generally usually a brownish color, sharp edges (not good for worms, etc.), might have some small pieces of metal (I've heard, don't know) and is made of silica which supposedly contributes to algae outbreaks/growth. There is also a lot of debate over this last point. The upside is, it is very cheap compared to most calcium carbonate type sand (unless you can find "southdown" brand or a "Kolorscape" or "Old Castle" might be the correct name rather than Kolorscape- brand--if it is the calcium carbonate, it fizzles if you put vinegar to it). Personally, I can't find the calcium carbonate cheaply and I do not like play sand, so I use a real fine "sandblasting" sand. It does fine for me.

3. If you do use a filter, then be sure to rinse it regularly and often to get the gunk it catches out of the water.

4. An r/o system does take a lot of the minerals and nitrates, etc out of the water. Most of these can/do lead to algae problems. If you do regular water changes with a good salt brand, then you actually have most of the right stuff in the water and don't have to add extra additives. Some people add a few additives, mostly for coral growth/health (i.e., kalk, iodine, etc. ). Before using a lot of additives, I would do a lot of extensive reading and learn as much about it as possible. I have seen many people just start adding things when it is really not needed.

5. Once again do some research on the lighting system you want. For the last 4-5 years, metal halide has been the "in" thing for coral loving lights, I think. The t5's are relatively new, at least to me, and I know little to nothing about them. You may or may not need a chiller depending on where you live and how much light you get. MH are known for making the tanks hotter.

6. Saltwater bacteria is different from freshwater. It will not work that way.

7. Again, a protein skimmer is much like a filter. It does remove a lot of the gunk in the tank before it has a chance to break down and raise your nitrate level. It also removes other things, metals, etc, that is not good for the tank, as well as good things, sometimes. They do come in different sizes for different sized tanks, as well as different prices (what else is new?). Most people think that most companies overrate their skimmers, so generally you should pick one that might be rated for quite a bit more, maybe twice(?) as much as your tank size or more. Do a little research and get a good one. A hundred dollars generally will not buy too many good protein skimmers, and if so, they are usually just an "entry" level type and do not skim very well. If yours for $100.00 is used, it just might very well be a fairly decent one. List its brand and I am sure you will get some good feed back on it.

Good luck, hopefully others will chime in with more/better advice.

Frank
 
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stingray4540 said:
Thanks everyone so far. Now I've got an idea and will relay to my dad. I will probably be back with more questions. In the meantime if anyone else wants to chime in on the subject or on anything else that you think I might want to know feel free.
Click to expand...

Good luck. Take pictures and post them. The only piece of advice I'd add to what has already been said is don't get caught up with spending a lot of money on the tools. I'm in the process of setting up a reef tank in the long term, but my local fish shop told me since this is my first foray into this, just do fish (FOWLR) for a year. Why? Well, you can make a few mistakes, live through a couple of algae blooms and get your water stabalized over the first year. Most fish are hardy enough to live through these rough learning patches (OK, quite a few won't, but corals are more sensitive). Additionally, it means that you don't have to lay down a gigantic load of cash to start.

Don't rush. Good luck.
 
Don't worry, we're taking our time, so i wont have pics for a while. We just ordered some scratch remover for the glass, so nothing is even going to happen till we buff the glass.

FSA: I thought sandblasting sand was silica? If it isn't what is it? and were do you get it?

Anyone: does anyone know approximately how many pounds of sand it will take per one inch in a 150 gallon tank(6' x 18") ?
 
stingray, I assume that it is silica, but I do not know for sure. I think it is. But the reason I like it is because it is gray (at least what I use) in color and is of a uniform size. You can buy it in 60 and 30 grit sizes. Before I used it, I looked at it and then looked at regular playsand and just visually compared the two (I made a small cut in a bag to look at it). I bought mine at Ace/Homco locally. I did not see any at Home Depot. I just think that it is a better option than playsand, at least to me. If I could: 1. get it and 2. at a reasonable price, then I would use an aragonite (calcium carbonate) based sand. But that was not a feasible option in my case.

I bought one 100# bag of it for $12.00 as opposed to maybe having to buy 4 to 5 bags of aragonite at a lfs for about $20-$30 (can't remember) a bag. I don't have that kind of extra money.

There are a lot of debates about using playsand (silica) vs a calcium carbonate based sand. Please read them and then choose for yourself. As in most anything, this subject has trade offs. I.E., Silica based sand as opposed to calcium carbonate. I would rather use the calcium carbonate, but the trade off is cost, in my estimation. Cost won out for me.

When referencing "live sand", there is actually 2 kinds that come to my mind. One is "live" referring to having bacteria enriched sand to help with cycling. The second is "live" generally referring to what is in the sand, such as worms, copepods, etc. The second option is generally the one you should try to purchase/get. It supposedly helps keep the sand/aquarium in a better state. Obviously play/sandblasting sand does not have either one of these. A lot (maybe most) people will use a dry sand and then supplement it with several pounds of the second kind of "live" sand or they will purchase "fauna kits", etc to populate their dry sand purchase.
Frank
 
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Actually I don't get playsand, I get 30 grit sand which I guess is the same thing. I just thought that sandblasting sand was different or something.

I have another question for everyone, is there a way to rig a protien skimmer like a canister filter? like it has an intake and return to the tank, so I can put it in the cabinet but not have a sump?

Oh, and my dad has a lot of gravel and is trying to figure out how to use it. can anyone give me a reason why it wouldn't be a good idea to put down gravel on the bottom then sand on top?
 
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