Help? New tank, 4 weeks, No Nitrites OR Nitrates yet

I think you are slowing down the cycle process by keeping ammonia at only .25ppm. On a fishless cycle, 1.0+ ppm is recommended, then you can expect to see nitrites and nitrates in about 4 weeks. So, with a .25ppm cycle, just expect the cycle to take twice as long.

Otherwise, stop changing the carbon. When you toss out the carbon, you are tossing out beneficial bacteria too. Activated carbon is a chemical filter, but it can definitely house de-nitrifying bacteria also. Or better yet, replace it with another AC foam block...or the bio-media you can get with little bags from the fish store. Eheim makes a generic bio-media I use in all my power filters. All my AC's (5) use 2 foam blocks and one bag of bio-media.

Finally, on a fishless cycle, cocktail shrimp is kinda expensive. If you are just trying to create ammonia from decomposing organic matter, why not just toss in something cheap....like a piece of leftover chicken, or catfood?
 
Thanks again for the advice. I'll let you know how it turns out. I just reread my last post and it came across as a little ornery...it's not how I meant it. I just want what's best for my fish becuase they really are the funniest little things! I'm a little nervous about what I'll find when I get home, but we'll see.

Thanks for all your help!
 
Don't change any water for two weeks, no gravel cleaning- nothing
(don't overfeed, small amounts of food ). Go to your lfs and get biozyme and cycle and dose as rec.. I guarantee you will have cycled by the end of the two weeks. You will probably lose some fish but that's why your supposed to cycle with one or two hardy fish, if any. I also use easy balance by tetra to reduce my nitrates, which you'll deal with later. If your tank gets cloudy grey(bacterial bloom) it's cycling DON'T WORRY! This will go away on its own at the end of the process(one or two weeks) and is harmless to your fish..
 
I cycled my aquarium with fish. I did at least a weekly 10-25% water change, and any more as required to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels in a safe range as indicated by the test kit instructions (<0.25 ppm ammonia). I don't have my log here to reference, but the ammonia dropped and nitrites came up relatively quickly - probably on the order of a week. It seemed to take forever to the nitrites to drop off and nitrates to come up, but it finally finished in 6 weeks. So I don't really believe that you're significantly slowing the establishment of the cycle by making water changes necessary to keep the fish happy.
 
I just thought I would let everyone know that I finally...FINALLY...noticed that the cycle has started.

My Nitrites tested at .50 this evening, and my ammonia has dropped to less than 1.0. I am so excited, I can't tell you. The only thing that I did differently was that I lowered the PH a bit...from 7.6 to about 7.2. So, maybe that's what did it!

Thanks again everyone, and I'll keep you posted!
 
Water changes do not hurt the cycle !!!!! This is mis-information any time it is stated. Ammonia and nitrite will injure your fish. Keep the ammonia and nitrite levels safe for your fish. The myth that water changes hurt the cycle is created by folks who do not understand how the bacteria lives reproduces and grows. There is plenty of assumed and mis-guided information in print all over this hobby. If you have doubt about what is and isn't true, research the subject at hand, seperate actual science form random opinions with no information to back them.
Ph should not be a concern at all. You really need a Kh of 2-3 degrees to ensure a stable tank, and a Kh of 2-3 gegrees is going to put you in the 7.6 range with atmospheric levels of co2. In other words if your PH is below 7.6 you should worry otherwise it's not an issue. A Kh test would do you far more good than the Ph test will
Messing with Ph did not hurt your cycle or help it. What did you use to lower the Ph? It will probably cause other problems down the road.

Throwing away the carbon could hurt things because it will colonize bacteria as mentioned. Carbon is unnecessary to use as a rule, and does not work for long when it is used. After the first week (give or take 4 days) the carbon was nothing but bio-media. It's ability to chemically filter is depleted that quickly. If it is in the system, it does serve as a decent bio-filtration media though so don't throw it away randomly.

You can rinse your media in tank water, but as said don't rinse it with tap water. The bacteria do not wash loose easily if at all. I wouldn't worry about excessive cleaning but if you feel the need to rinse you can do so.

The Product Cycle does not contain or claim to contain ammonia. It claims to contain bacteria, but repeated reviews have shown that it does not in fact contain the needed bacteria, and it typically adds a lot of pollution without helping anything. the bacteria it contains )if it's still alive when you buy it) will eat ammonia for the short period they remain alive in your tank. After they die they they do nothing but add to pollution levels. The only viable bacteria in a bottle product I know of is Bio-spira, which would help your situation immensly if you found some and used it.

You do not need or want ammonia if you have fish in the tank. Ammonia at anything but trace levels is deadly to fish. it causes permanent gill damage, and even if your fish survive they will be scarred and their life spans will be shortened because of the gill damage they have endured. Ammonia levels at 0.25 like you were doing at the start are as high as I would let things go. Nitrite likewise needs to be kept low. Killing fish unneccessarily is not a good practice so avoid the advice of "losing a few fish" instead of doing water changes.

So, I assume that now I may be flamed for adding these new fish, but I know people that have had tanks forever and never check more than the PH. The Smithsonian book I just got said to only check the PH too. So, instead of playing with the tank too much, I'm going to ride it out, keep an eye on my fish, and see what happens.
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I'm not much for flaming folks once they are already in a really bad situation, but if you ride it out you will be killing more fish in the process. You need to do what is best for your fish which is water changes and constant monitoring until the cycle finishes estabilishing itself in the tank. It is odd that it has taken this long to get rolling, but that is the nature of things. Just protect your fish and hopefully it will not take much longer.

As far as folks who check nothing take care of nothing and claim that is O.K. that's their choice, but it is an irresponsible way to do things. It's no different than putting a terrier in a small apartment and never taking it out for excersize. It will live, but not well. Fish will live in all kinds of nasty condistions, but that does not make it right to keep them that way.

I would avoid any book that considers Ph the only necessary test. as said Ph should be the least of your worries at this point. The fact tht they take this stance points to a really poorly researched book. There is plenty of information an Ph, Kh, Gh, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and so on in the chemistry article. it is well worth reading. The cycle sticky in the newbie Forum is also full of good information, it does take a while to read, and there is a lot of stuff repeated and corrected but the information is there.

Good luck with things
Dave

Dave
 
Glad about your aquarium. Just a note- zebras aren't supposed to be housed in water over 7.0 ph. I have read that ph will affect cycling, just can't remember how.
 
Glad about your aquarium. Just a note- zebras aren't supposed to be housed in water over 7.0 ph. I have read that ph will affect cycling, just can't remember how.
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Sloshy, This is part of the huge Ph myth in this hobby, Most if not all fish will easily acclimate to reasonable pH levels. Zebra's in particular are very hardy fish and will acclimate to many things other fish won't. A KH below 2-3 is a set-up for an unstable tank, and a KH of 2-3 will give you a pH around 7.6 give or take acouple of tenths depending on Co2 levels and other factors in the tank. Natural environments connot be easily duplicated in our tanks, and the ph of fish's home habitats in the wild cannot safely be duplicated in a closed system without a lot more work than most folks want to do. Stable is always better than unstable, and Ideal pH is a mis-nomer. In the wild the large volume of water per fish and the constant exchange of water makes for an entirely different environment than we can create in our tanks. stability is achieved in the wild by dillution and water exchange, in our tanks the chemistry and natural process are very different.
Lastly, most fish sold in the hobby were raised in a tank, and know nothing of the natural environment from whence their ancestors were originally captured. I have kept Zebras and giant Danio's both in tanks with pH as high as 8.8 without issue, and for years(When I was young and didn't know what test kits were)we kept Danios without any testing in a town with very hard water and high sulfer.

Ph can and will effect the cycle when KH is depleted through natural processes and Ph crashes because folks do not understand the Ph myth and the importance of KH in their tanks. The changes made from 7.6-7.2 are really insignificant in the life of the bacteria. If an acid that removes or depletes Kh was used then the chances of further problems were created. Additinally most pH fixers do not create stable changes, and there is a decent chance the pH will rebound to it's previous level in a short time. Either way there needs to be carbonate in the tank, and carbonate will create a basic pH at atmospheric CO2 levels. Check it out and test for yourself. read up on Old Tank Syndrome, and cycling woes with low Ph tanks.

HTH
dave
 
Isn't it funny though; when you look up the specifics on almost any common freshwater fish, the first spec listed is a pH requirement ? My LFS has employees that question me about my tank pH before selling a fish. This is diligent behaviour I guess, but I just tell them 7.0, even though I haven't check my pH for about a year. ...and I did get a warning once, on buying some swordtails, that they couldn't warranty the fish who prefer a slightly alkaline water (knowing that I have a 7.0pH). I should have made him show me a test of his water, since I only live about 1 mile away.

Anyhow, the same store has some very nice orphan tanks stocked with just about every species you could imagine....all in the same tank. Tetras, danios, killis, rainbows, even corys, barbs, and kuhli loaches. So it seems, if they can all get along, the common pH mythos is just that.
 
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