HELP Odd Fish Behaviour on a stable tank!

B

BigZed

AC Members
Oct 11, 2007
42
0
0
42
Hey everyone,

Here is the situation; I have a Lionhead Goldfish and an Albino Oscar living together in a 30 gallon tank (tank parameters to follow) and I did my water change about 3 days ago but since that last water change my Lionhead has acted "very sleepy". He just sits at the bottom and doesnt move that often, unless i approach with food. When i do feed him he'll eat as he always does and then swim around a bit...but eventually he lies on the bottom.

I know how the fish looks when it sleeps and this is definitely not the same behavior...overall the fish if very inactive.

Also today i woke up, checked the tank and noticed that 2 (out of 4) tetras were dead. So i immediately did a 50% emergency water change hoping that would curb anything that was going on with the water.

Another note: Since this whole thing started (after the original scheduled water change and the emergency 50% water change) my pleco always races to the surface as if it wants to jump out or get some air. Its very odd the pleco NEVER came to the surface never mind racing to the surface to "nip" at the water level.

Since the emergency water change (now about 6 hours ago...1100 EST) the oscar and the two tetras seem fine.....pleco still comes to the surface like i described but not as often and the Lionhead is basically laying at the bottom.

The liohead physically looks ok...the only thing that has changed is its color..it used to be more "white/shiny" and less "gold" but since this started i noticed that it has more color. The color isnt totally gold, it looks more like a red rash. I assumed this was because i was feeding the Oscar since its a new fish and the Lionhead would steal some of the food. I fed the oscar three times a day..one pellet each time...but sometimes the Lionhead would get it before the Oscar did, so i had to "re-feed".

I also took some pics with my cell phone ( i know terrible camera) but i think some of the pics illustrate the Lionhead's behaviour.

here is a link to some pics of the lionhead

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8247/1110071342bv0.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2954/1110071343lj3.jpg


Here are my tank specs since the emergency water change.

pH 7.7
Ammonia .1mg/L
Nitrite - .1mg/L
Nitrate - no less then 20mg/L and no more then 50mg/L (judging from the color chart)
30 Gallon tank
No plant life

one Albino Oscar about 1.5 to 2 inches long (have had it about 10 days)

one Lionhead about 4 inches long (have had it for 4 years now)

2 tetras (had 4...for about 3 years)

one pleco 4.5 inches long have had it for 4 years as well.



Any help PLEASE would be great....I dont want to lose this Lionhead.
 
more water changes until ammonia and nitrites are 0. when those are present in the tank, it means the tank is NOT stable and the toxins could be harming the goldfish.
 
Welcome to the AC BigZed! Ok, so i'll start off with the bad news...with the fish you have in your tank, it is overstocked, which could be causing your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates to be like that. Ideally, your ammonia should be 0, your nitrites should be 0 and your nitrates should be less than 20. I have a couple questions for you that may help us to help you....
What is the temperature of the tank?
Goldfish are techinically coldwater and the rest of your fish are tropical, so when the temperature is warmer, it means not as much oxygen is present in the water. People will tell you goldfish can live in a wide array of temperatures, but depending on what yours is set at, you could have a picky fish. Goldfish normally like 64-74ish degrees and tropical fish like 74-82ish.

What kind of filtration do you have?
A standard rule on this forum is to have double the filtration for a goldfish tank.... meaning you would need to be running a filter on that tank that can support up to a 60gallon tank (or 2 filters each supporting a 30g). Oscars as well as goldfish are incredibly messy fish, meaning the amount of waste they create will scum up the water twice as fast as say your tetras.

I don't know if this was the picture or maybe just your lionhead's coloring, but for the first picture, the red rash, were you specificaly talking about the gills? It looked like those might be a little red and that could be from the ammonia.

Here's your good news, there's some fixes for your problems...
For a temporary fix, keep doing water changes and possibly up the filtration on your tank. I'm guessing you didnt quarantine your oscar before putting him in the tank. It's usually a good idea to house a new fish in a different tank for a few weeks to prevent any spread of disease to a healthy established tank. If that's right, my suggestion is to keep an eye out for any signs of disease that could be hitting your lionhead.

In the long run... you should look at getting a bigger tank. In your 30 gallon tank, you have a lionhead which, given the right tank conditions, could reach 8inches or more, an oscar who can reach the same, and a pleco who can become over a foot long. I'll let someone else recommend what size tank you should think about to house everyone. Stunting is a thing they dont tell you about at the petshop, and it happens when your fish's tank is too small for how big they will grow. Essentially they will stop growing and cause a premature death, which people on here will argue is painful.

Sorry to be the bearer of hard news, but you've come to the right place if you want honest help with any of your fish! Hope this does help you! Good luck!
 
Thanks alot for the info!! I have some answers to your questions Riddle4sphinx

1) The tank temp is 74 degrees, which by what you said would be the max it should be at for the goldfish. So how would i try and cool this tank? Also just to note...ive had this tank for about a year...and its been in the same spot in my house the whole time and I havent experienced any problems with the fish when considering the temp. Not trying to argue with you, im just trying to paint a clear picture of the "environment".

2) The filtration is hard to answer bc I dont know the name of the company (they are the pumps that came with the tank) However they are the standard style that sits on the edge of the glass...water flow out of them is steady and every two weeks i replace the carbon filter with a new one. HOWEVER i just bought a brand new RENA canister filter "Rena Filstar XP3" that can handle up to 175 US Gallons bc i do plan on getting a larger tank in the near future.

3) The "Red Rash" i have seen before on this goldfish. In the past i have researched this and i found that when the goldfish is eating well it will produce more color through its scales. Though lately I think its more predominant bc i have been feeding the oscar ALOT and the goldfish is stealing some so in turn its getting fed more often then usual. The rash seems to be all over its body, its fins, belly...pretty much everywhere but there are still areas where there is white scales.


I think with what you guys have told me i have a Temp/water quality problem. My new question is with this new and more powerful filter that i purchased do you think that I'll get rid of the ammonia and nitrite until i can find a larger tank? As previously asked, what can i do about the temp problem? I fear that if i lower the temp too much the oscar will suffer, hence i have a conflict with the species that i have.


Thanks again for everything
 
water changes are the only thing to help with the ammonia and nitrite....Once the beneficial bacteria has appropriately established to deal with the new fish these will regulate. An XP3 is a good filter, it will certainly help you. As far as lowering your temp, that would be good for the goldfish, bad for the oscar. The good thing is you have said you are interested in getting another tank. Perhaps after you have left this filter on for awhile you could move it to the new tank and avoid going through the spikes you are dealing with now again. You could get a 55g for the oscar and leave the goldfish in the 30g. Then you could accomodate their temp needs seperately. Good luck, and I am sure more people will chime in with more experienced opinions ( I have had neither goldfish, nor oscars).
 
I would think twice about changing the carbon filter every 2 weeks. I am new to this game, but I thought by doing that you are effectively removing a large source of beneficial bacteria every 2 weeks, and might be precipitating a mini-cycle. I just rinse mine in tank water quickly and then replace. Could this be one reason why your tank is showing ammonia?
 
I still agree with what msjinkzd has said.... water changes are a good thing to reduce your nitrates/ammonia/nitrites.... i'd do about a 25-30% water change every day until your readings get down to normal. Your temperature is good at 74. That should be fine for all your fish right now. My guess then is just a little stress from water quality, keep at that and hopefully that will turn out to be whats bothering your lionhead. If he starts showing any other signs of distress or anything, let us know and maybe we can see if its something else.

I also agree with maybe putting the new filter on your tank and letting that help a little. Keep an eye on it though that its not too powerful for your tetras. Yay for getting a new tank! What size are you thinking?

One more thing... I'm not in the know about all the science that goes with carbon filters, but I did have a filter for a 55gallon tank on my 29gallon tank that kept one goldfish in it and I used to change it every two weeks as well. My tank was very stable when I did that and did weekly water changes of about 30%. Good luck!
 
Hmm, seeing that you feed the Oscar A LOT and you think the goldy is stealing some of the food, maybe the spikes come from food waste and the lionhead is constipated?
I would do plenty of water changes with a good gravel vac and not feed for a day or two and see what happens...

L.
 
So an update on the tank....its not good at all...I came home from work today and the Lionhead has serious fin rot (stress/water quality)...i lost another tetra (down to the final one) and the oscar is starting to swim very funny...so they are dying but im not sure if i should kill them all now...or still try to save the tank/fish (even though trying will add to more suffering for the fish IMO)

If I should kill them.....what are my next steps?

If I try to get rid of this Fin Rot....what should I do? Ive changed 25% of the water since ive gotten home. Stores were closed so I couldnt get any fin rot medication until tomorrow.

Suggestions please
 
continue with large water changes..

not sure what kind of filter you had but it may not be able to compensate for the load of the tank.

how long have these fish been in the tank?
usually mixing tetras with oscars is not a good idea unless you plan on using the tetras as food/target fish for the oscar.
how big is the oscar?

adding a new filter will take some time for the bacteria to build up. so doing water changes will help buy you time.
do you know how long the ammonia and nitrites have been at these levels?

ammonia can burn fins..I have some angels that had this happen it takes time that to heal.

fyi , long exposure to low or elevated ammonia and or nitrites can cause damage that may not heal.

hang in there and good luck.

btw I wouldn't add meds to the tank as you are doing water changes and would have to add meds back to keep the concentration levels where the fish would benefit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom