Help - pH pRoblem!

[Karl Kornfeld]

I'm trying to find out why my pH is so low. It's below the scale! I've had several deaths and want to avoid more; I certainly don't want to bring any new fish in until I've got things stabilized. I've been doing 50% water changes daily for almost a week, previously I had done them every 1-2 weeks. Part of the problem may have been that I wasn't vacuuming the gravel deeply enough. Until this past week I'd been vacuuming the surface, stirring up only the top half inch or so. I also had a lot of hidden areas that I couldn't vacuum. I've removed all but two pieces of decor that are easily moved and have been vacuuming very deeply this past week, but still the pH keeps slamming down.

It's a 20g long. The only fish I have left are 2 bloodfins, 1 pearl gourami and 1 oto. The filter is well established for more than 2 years. Temperature is well mainitained at 78F. The charcoal cartrige for the filter was replaced 1 week ago.

My test data:.....tap.................tank
pH................7.7...................6 (bottom of the test kit scale - probably lower)
KH..............2°/35.8ppm.........<1°/17ppm
GH..............3°/53.7ppm..........2°/35.8ppm
amonia...............0.....................0
nitrate...............0.....................0
nitrite................0.....................0

These results are from a brand new test kit. It takes about 2 hours after a 50% change for the pH to go all the way down.I do have some driftwood in there but not enough to turn my water to vinegar over the course of two hours. I'm concerned about the stress all these water changes are causing my fish. I'd prefer to solve this without adding more chemicals (I condition my water with Amquel+).

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[mostlycichlids]

have you tested your tap water PH?

 

[Dan06]

have you tested your tap water PH?

Did ya read his post at all? He posted his Tap PH of 7.7!

Anyways, there is probably nothing wrong with your tank. It's probably your water source (water main flushing, ETC) can stir things up and really mess with the tap waters parameters (I had the same issue). I also have noticed that a sudden algae bloom will sometimes alter your PH, this is from experience, but I have no proof.

Take some tap water, treat it in a bucket or cup, let it sit for a couple hours and then test the PH again. My PH was coming through my tap @ 8.0 and over the course of a couple hours, it would drop to about 6.5.

For the time being, take some baking soda, mix a half teaspoon into a cup of water and add it to the tank, infront of the water current coming from your filter. Gradually do this over time, as if you were acclimating them to your tank. This will give you some temporary PH balance while you figure out if your Tap source is truly the source. BE CAREFUL adding the baking soda, make sure its fully disolved and add SMALL amounts, a teaspoon or more could raise it a lot faster than you'd like & really stress out your fish.

Speaking from experience here...

 

[Karl Kornfeld]

Thanks for your tips Dan.

Take some tap water, treat it in a bucket or cup, let it sit for a couple hours and then test the PH again. My PH was coming through my tap @ 8.0 and over the course of a couple hours, it would drop to about 6.5.

I'm trying this now, but so far there is no change in treated tap pH after more than 5 hours (reading 8.2 today).

I'm a little reluctant to try your baking soda treatment. I do own powdered chemical buffers that I got when I first set up the tank, but never really used. I'd rather fix this without adding stuff to the water. Something is causing my pH to drop by 2 whole points.

I also have noticed that a sudden algae bloom will sometimes alter your PH, this is from experience, but I have no proof.

I do have quite a bit of algae, especially since my two clown plecos died. For some reason I assumed that algae was blooming because of the higher pH, not the other way around, but I don't know if I read this somewhere or what. I'll try and recheck my books.

 

[Karl Kornfeld]

Update a few days later...

I just wanted to update this in case someone with the same/similar problem calls it up from a forum search.

I went back in my basic fish care reading and found that Boruchowitz does recognize this issue in established tanks. He is nonspecific about the chemistry, but it has something to do with "biological processes" creating more acid than my particular tap water can neutralize. In this case - and only ths case - he recommends adding chemical buffer to maintain a stabile pH, and so that's what I'm doing. So far, it looks stabile and assuming all goes well I'll start restocking in the next week or two.

 

[liv2padl]

acidification of the nitrogen waste products in your tank can and does result in the production of nitric acid which, as you have found out, will lower your pH ... often, significantly. having no ammonia or nitrite when you do water testing, is not at all indicative of the health of your tank. the problem is caused by dissolved organic matter (DOC) which you cannot test for.

the answer to this problem is simple really. just keep your tank clean. neglecting gravel vacuuming and water changes will result in acidification quicker than you can say, "dirty water". in my opinion, you don't need chemical buffers to maintain your pH. this is really only putting a bandaid on the problem and not getting at the cause. if you do 50 percent water changes on a weekly basis and thoroughly vacuum the gravel concurrently, i think you'll find your problem goes away.

all this assumes of course, that your tank is not overstocked.

 

[mostlycichlids]

Did ya read his post at all? He posted his Tap PH of 7.7!

Anyways, there is probably nothing wrong with your tank. It's probably your water source (water main flushing, ETC) can stir things up and really mess with the tap waters parameters (I had the same issue). I also have noticed that a sudden algae bloom will sometimes alter your PH, this is from experience, but I have no proof.

Take some tap water, treat it in a bucket or cup, let it sit for a couple hours and then test the PH again. My PH was coming through my tap @ 8.0 and over the course of a couple hours, it would drop to about 6.5.

For the time being, take some baking soda, mix a half teaspoon into a cup of water and add it to the tank, infront of the water current coming from your filter. Gradually do this over time, as if you were acclimating them to your tank. This will give you some temporary PH balance while you figure out if your Tap source is truly the source. BE CAREFUL adding the baking soda, make sure its fully disolved and add SMALL amounts, a teaspoon or more could raise it a lot faster than you'd like & really stress out your fish.

Speaking from experience here...

Hey excuse me My bad. glad to see youy got the help you were seeking.

 

[mgange]

I have very similar water conditions in tap and tank, except that I also have very high nitrate in my tank (3 yrs old). Twice weekly water changes are what fits in my routine, and I'm dying to have live bearers. I've been trying EasyBalance with Nitraban for the past two months. It seems to work pretty well, although I've been adding it when I change my water every two weeks, not the use weekly/never change your water routine recommended on the bottle. It raises my tank pH to 7 or 7.2.

I'm sure many of you think I should live with the water I'm dealt, and change it more often, but barring that, do you see any reason (besides cost) that I should switch to baking soda instead?

 

[mgange]

Twice weekly water changes are what fits in my routine, and I'm dying to have live bearers.

My bad- I meant to say I change my water twice monthly, every 2 weeks.