Help Wanted: I've Been Bitten by the Fishkeeping Bug

[essence006]

Wow!! I can't believe I got NO alerts to ANY of these responses (by email) except for the one from the autobot that said the thread was approved!! I figured my post had fallen on completely deaf ears! You guys rock!! Thanks so much for the feedback!! I have multiple regretful statements to make in update to my first post. First, my platy died. After a recent water change the platy who looked extremely bloated appeared to really be struggling. She would stay in one place in the back of the tank floating in place but not swimming at all. I'd call it treading water if anything. After a good bit of monitoring it appeared that the fish was full of tiny eggs. After more investigation I assumed this to be pregnant behavior however all I read said that since platys are livebearers egg births are essentially premature births. She then went into the cave (which she did on a regular basis) and stayed for some time. Upon coming out it was clear that some of the eggs were beginning to be excreted. This also went on into the evening at a a very slow pace. The tetras seemed totally freaked out by the whole thing and kept to the other side of the tank until this 'birthing' began. Once the eggs started to be excreted though the tetras chased the poor platy all over the tank. The harassment made me feel terrible but it eventually subsided. By this time it was time for bed and when I checked the tank in the morning the platy was grounded at the bottom, dead. At this point the entire crew I started with is gone, and I feel like a COMPLETE horse's rear. But the two hearty tetras remain.

Humiliating fact #2. (and I have NO IDEA how I missed this.) The tank is actually 5.5 gallons!!!!!! I swear I thought I bought a 10 gallon tank but in one of my moments of sheer genius I decided to go online to determine if in fact the W x H x D dimensions were normal for a 10. Why? Because after the platy died i went to my LFS to buy ANOTHER 10 gal tank to fishless cycle (as mentioned in post 1) and got it home and set it next to the other and it dwarfed it!! I rationalized it to death and then decided to do the math. It was at this point that I determined my six year old daughter would be a much better fish keeper than me... The TOPFIN10 filter on the 5.5 gal is probably what caused the brain fart. But all I can do at this point is soldier on... SMH.

So here's the latest: The REAL 10 gallon tank started off as a classic add ammonia and fish food fishless cycle until my trolling yielded the Tetra Safe Start Plus information which prompted me to do a water change, dropping the NH3 to approx 1ppm and then adding TSS in the hopes of accelerating the cycling process. Of course it wasn't until after I'd added Prime to my new water followed by half the bottle of TSS that I discovered the 24 hr rule... LOL.. so that's $14 bucks down the drain! I added the other half bottle to the newly discovered 5.5gal tank in hopes of sealing the deal on it's cycle. Interestingly, very shortly after adding TSS to the 5.5 the tetras began responding with the most "healthy" behavior they've ever exhibited. The swimming was smooth and graceful and they both appeared to have significantly more energy than they've normally exhibited. And that was extremely pleasing.

I'll be picking up another bottle of TSS tomorrow to dose the 10 gallon since it seems I blew that transaction entirely. As a correction to my initial post the other tetra is a black phantom.

Now to some of the replies you guys so graciously supplied. I'm going to use the reply links beneath each reply to respond to those. Thanks again to all of you for the assistance. Also, I promised pics so you'll see those tonight too as soon as I figure out how to post them! lol

 

[essence006]

A few 5.5 gal tank pics including the twinbar platy before her passing...

Note the last pic of the platy shows one of the 'eggs' starting to pass. Eventually there were a number of them outside of her but still connected to her body in what appeared to be a sac of some sort with what appeared to blood in it. (unfortunately I didn't snap any more pics at that point.)

 

[essence006]

Welcome to the addiction. There are a couple of things I would start with. First, every time you do a water change, you need to add prime. And second, I would not worry too much about the PH level. Most fish are fairly adaptable to PH levels, the most important thing is keeping it stable. If you move to a 20 gal, you can take your filter off of your 10 and put it on the 20 and the 20 will be instantly cycled. Then put a new filter on the 10 and start the cycle process again. Rereading your post, if you only waited a day for your tank to cycle, I would say that the tank did not cycle - it's a fairly long drawn out process. I would recommend you go back and read the cycling sticky, then go from there. Good luck.

Vanillarum, Thank you for your reply. So far all WC's have been followed with Prime (once I switched to Prime from the inferior product I was using before.) Your advice about the pH levels is noted and I will re-read the sticky as suggested. Thank you.

 

[essence006]

I wouldnt say hes in trouble with plants. Id say hes bit another bullet because oncr you learn how to keep plants along with fish then youll never go back to fake plants. Welcome to the hobby!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

ktrom113,

Thanks for your reply! You're right never again will a fake plant grace a tank of mine. The difference is entirely too drastic to be ignored. Thank you for the kind welcome!!

 

[essence006]

I propose, sir, that you don't actually want help. More you came here looking for encouragement.


and you'll be sure to get it.. enjoy the hobby

dougall,

Thank you so much for your reply! I certainly DO want help! Regardless of how it may appear. This hobby is considerably more daunting to the entry level beginner than I ever imagined. But I'm enjoying it a great deal! And the encouragement is also welcomed. Thanks for your kindness!

 

[essence006]

I'm along similar lines with most other members.

First, with live plants, and provided you don't overload the fish, you should not see ammonia or nitrite. Even slow-growing plants (Anubias, Java Fern) need nitrogen and prefer ammonia/ammonium. The sword will use more. These should help you with the nitrogen issue. I would however find a floating plant to add; floaters are very fast growing, and being at the surface they have the aerial advantage of taking in CO2 from the air, and they can be what some call "ammonia sinks."

Second, a 20g will give you more options and be easier to navigate. The smaller the tank, the more fluctuation may occur as little things have bigger impact.

And a larger tank will be easier to stock. A 10g is not much space, and the fish already mentioned are not going to work in a 10g. All of the common tetra need a group of their own to be healthy, no less than six is usually recommended, but more is always better. A 20g will allow you to have a nice shoal of one or two or even three tetra species depending which, along with some other fish like substrate for more interest.

I would not get Black Widow/Black Skirt as these get large and they can be nippy in small spaces, even a 20g. Emperor Tetra are very active, and I would not have these in anything under a 3-foot tank [I have a group of 12 that I raised from eggs/fry in my 4-foot 90g, and that suits them]. Avoid any livebearers as you water is no doubt soft (the acidic pH suggests this), so soft water fish will automatically be better suited and avoid health issues. Tetra, rasbora, catfish...there are hundreds, though not all will work as I've already noted.

And I agree not to mess with the pH. As for cycling, it is true that the lower pH does affect the nitrifying bacteria, but fortunately this is not a problem. In acidic water, ammonia is ammonium which is basically harmless. So this is a blessing for the fish. And with the plants, nitrite should not be an issue. Keep testing though, but I would expect ammonia and nitrite to be zero provided you do not overload the fish stock or add too many too quickly. Add a floating plant, and you should be set to go.

BTW, test kits like the API which is a good one, will test ammonia or ammonium as "ammonia," so in acidic water this is not the danger it would be in basic (pH above 7).

Byron.

Byron,

I've read many of your posts since I discovered this site and your insight has been invaluable already! I'll investigate the floaters asap! Guess what though? My WPG numbers (upon realizing how small the tank ACTUALLY is...) is over 3 watts per gallon which is technically high light isn't it?? Could this be where my recent algae bloom came from??? I thought I'd dodged that bullet but much to my surprise it reared it's ugly head yesterday. I noticed the fuzz starting to grow on my plants and on a few pieces of food (i think it was uneaten flake) on the bottom. Today I manually removed it all and had a no light day today other than ambient. Have you ever used the pure hydrogen peroxide spray treatment some recommend?? Not knowing the science I'm a bit skittish to try such a thing without expert approval. Once I'm convinced that the tanks are stabilized I'm going to try my hand at DIY CO2 in the 5.5 and 10 gal tanks. How exciting!

Now to your point about tank size. I'm in the middle of a basement remodel and a 65 gallon tank will be gracing that space in approximately 6 weeks. Will I be able to get by at the current size of the fish 1" and 1.25" in the 10 gallon until then?? I swear I won't add a single fish beyond that! lol. However; once I evacuate the 5.5 gallon I'd like to stock it with appropriate fish. 6 little Neons maybe? and a few shrimp? Would that work? Thanks again for your thoughtful response!

 

[essence006]

Thanks Finster,

I've been combing through craigslist heavily these past few weeks and I think you're right! I've seen some great deals. I'm just not ready yet. Both the 5.5 gallon and the 10 are in the kitchen right now and I don't think my wife will tolerate a twenty in there. lol. We've cut a deal though that I get to put a big tank in our basement when it's done (i can't tell you how much I want to build it into a wall!!!) I'm very seriously considering building a 'closet' in the corner of the main entertainment room with access to that closet from the adjoining bedroom and building the 65 into that closet on the corner (giving viewability from two sides instead of one.) Access to the tank would be through the 'closet' door in the bedroom!! I think I'm gonna go for it!! LOL

Some say crushed coral, others say just stick with soft water fish. Knowing me I'll probably try both. Now that I have the little tanks I'll likely try coral in the 10 and see how it goes and if successful use it in the 65. If not, soft water fish it is.

Cheers!

 

[essence006]

I would not worry about testing your tap water for ammonia since you stated that your ammonia was at zero after a water change (provided of course that you followed the test kit instructions to the letter to avoid a false reading). I would agree that your tank was not fully cycled when you added fish.
As for the filter, most experienced aquarists will say to use a filter that is rated for a tank twice the size as what it is to be used on. That is to say, for your ten gallon, use a filter that is rated for a 20 gal.
Your idea of a larger tank fishless cycled then moving your fish is a good idea and I would not recommend anything smaller than a 29 gal for anyone new to the hobby.
Good luck and keep us posted.

wizard,

Thanks for your advice,

Seems so counter-intuitive to a brain like mine to suggest bigger to the novice, but in light of the fragility of the smaller eco-systems it makes perfect sense. It also makes perfect sense that I'd start out with the most difficult option available! LOL. No question about it, my tank was clearly NOT cycled when the fish were added. I regret it, but I've learned that lesson and I'm moving on. The double the filter approach is definitely the way I'm going. There's a 20 gallon rated filter on the 10 now and it cleared the substrate fog in less than a day without any of the clarifier that comes with the sub. Nice.

I'm depressed that my two lonely tetras are 1. in an undersized tank, and 2. all by themselves without any pals of like kind. I've got to remedy this since I hate the idea of operating in a less than optimal environment. I'll fix it though. That I will!

Cheers Wizard! I'm off to Winterfell! lol

 

[essence006]

Oh and Byron, I think I failed to mention that the 'emperor' is in fact a phantom... yet another blunder.... sheesh.

 

[dougall]

dougall,

Thank you so much for your reply! I certainly DO want help! Regardless of how it may appear. This hobby is considerably more daunting to the entry level beginner than I ever imagined. But I'm enjoying it a great deal! And the encouragement is also welcomed. Thanks for your kindness!

I did mean help in the sense of stopping you from buying more and more tanks..