HELP!! Water expert needed!!!
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Verdigris
In colloquial terms the patina, consisting of green copper salts, is often described as "verdigris". This is inaccurate. Verdigris is only caused by the chemical reaction of copper materials with acetic acid and is a mixture of basic copper acetates. In contrast to copper salts which form a natural patina, verdigris is water soluble. Visually it may be recognized by its strikingly green color. (reference)
Verdigris pigment
Copper acetates of different chemical composition make up the pigment verdigris. This pigment ranges in color from green, to green-blue, blue-green, and finally just blue. Reactions with copper acetate vary among substances such as the following: copper acetates dissolve in mineral acid, alkalis convert them into blue copper hydroxide, oils, resins and proteins react to form green transparent copper oleates, resinates, and proteinates. Of the many different types of verdigris each type can be classified into either basic or acidic. (reference)
Neutral Verdigris is neutral copper acetate which occurs when basic acetates are dissolved in acetic acid, or when basic verdigris is ground up with strong acidic acid. Decomposition of neutral verdigris occurs when a solution is boiled. This verdigris is dissolved in acidic acid. The shape of neutral verdigris is hexagonal and rhombic with distinct boundaries.
Basic verdigris forms from the combination of air, water vapor, acetic acid vapor, and copper or copper alloy mix. It forms a solid of blue, or blue-green. It is often made up of fine needles. The chemical formula for basic verdigris can include all of the following:
[Cu(CH3COO2]2. Cu(OH)2. 5H2O (blue)
Cu(CH3COO)2. Cu(OH)2. 5H2O (blue)
Cu(CH3COO)2. [Cu(OH)2]2 (blue)
Cu(CH3COO)2. [Cu(OH)2]3. 2H2O (green)
In the presence of hydrochloric acid (HCl) verdigris is soluble and forms a green solution. From interaction with caustic it is much less soluble and precipitates. Sulfur compounds in the air darken all forms of verdigris. In the first three months of use the verdigris formulations can change from blue-green to green. All verdigris reacts with resin to form copper resinates. This copper resinate is rather transparent and often used as an overpaint to increase depth of saturation of an opaque green.
In colloquial terms the patina, consisting of green copper salts, is often described as "verdigris". This is inaccurate. Verdigris is only caused by the chemical reaction of copper materials with acetic acid and is a mixture of basic copper acetates. In contrast to copper salts which form a natural patina, verdigris is water soluble. Visually it may be recognized by its strikingly green color. (reference)
Verdigris pigment
Copper acetates of different chemical composition make up the pigment verdigris. This pigment ranges in color from green, to green-blue, blue-green, and finally just blue. Reactions with copper acetate vary among substances such as the following: copper acetates dissolve in mineral acid, alkalis convert them into blue copper hydroxide, oils, resins and proteins react to form green transparent copper oleates, resinates, and proteinates. Of the many different types of verdigris each type can be classified into either basic or acidic. (reference)
Neutral Verdigris is neutral copper acetate which occurs when basic acetates are dissolved in acetic acid, or when basic verdigris is ground up with strong acidic acid. Decomposition of neutral verdigris occurs when a solution is boiled. This verdigris is dissolved in acidic acid. The shape of neutral verdigris is hexagonal and rhombic with distinct boundaries.
Basic verdigris forms from the combination of air, water vapor, acetic acid vapor, and copper or copper alloy mix. It forms a solid of blue, or blue-green. It is often made up of fine needles. The chemical formula for basic verdigris can include all of the following:
[Cu(CH3COO2]2. Cu(OH)2. 5H2O (blue)
Cu(CH3COO)2. Cu(OH)2. 5H2O (blue)
Cu(CH3COO)2. [Cu(OH)2]2 (blue)
Cu(CH3COO)2. [Cu(OH)2]3. 2H2O (green)
In the presence of hydrochloric acid (HCl) verdigris is soluble and forms a green solution. From interaction with caustic it is much less soluble and precipitates. Sulfur compounds in the air darken all forms of verdigris. In the first three months of use the verdigris formulations can change from blue-green to green. All verdigris reacts with resin to form copper resinates. This copper resinate is rather transparent and often used as an overpaint to increase depth of saturation of an opaque green.
I was just guessing that maybe something caused the metals in the ro unit to decay. So when you started it back up they leached out into the tank. I threw out verdigris as an idea simply because I know it is a poison and there is copper in the brass. I have no idea really, but I just meant to suggest that maybe what you are looking for is something other than the normal chemistry of the fish tank.
Whatever it is it is not part of the normal parameters we look at everyday. Now we may be on to something. I had to add some new plumbing to accomidate the RO and water softner. But as I was writing this, it occured to me, if it had something to do with that, then why can I still use tap and not RO? However, maybe the brass fitting are a problem. I never used them in STL. This may be something. Only the RO system uses the brass fittings, not the tap water. What do ya'll think?
Okay, test subjects are in the 150 and awaiting further orders. First test will commence in 1 hour. :devil:
I was able to get the plastic fittings while I was in STL. I hope that's all it comes out to be.
Also, I think I found a home for my pleco. Waiting for the guy to call me back. :clap:
I was able to get the plastic fittings while I was in STL. I hope that's all it comes out to be.
Also, I think I found a home for my pleco. Waiting for the guy to call me back. :clap:
So after sending in the troops they seem to have discovered the brass fittings may have been the culprit. I started with 2 goldfish in 50% tank water, 50% RO, straight from the RO unit. No tank or tubing (except for the 4 foot coming off the unit). They lived (still avilve now). Next, 50% tank water and 50% RO system, tank tubing and all, but with the brass fittings all changed to plastic. The last test, which has been about 1 hour, 20% tank water, 80% RO system. Those 2 are still alive after 1 hour. No way that would have happened before I left for Germany. I'm leaving tomorrow and will be gone for a couple weeks. I'm going to have my girlfriend keep changing their water back and forth from tank to RO and over 10 days, she should be able to change it twice. If they make it through that, then we're good, but I think they would have died by now if there was a problem.
Remember!!!! No brass fittings with RO systems!!! Kinda makes sense, Acidic water and brass, could be a reaction there. I'll let ya'll know if the results change.
Remember!!!! No brass fittings with RO systems!!! Kinda makes sense, Acidic water and brass, could be a reaction there. I'll let ya'll know if the results change.
Never mind, Woke up this morning and their all dead. Have to work on it some more when I get home from this trip.
