High ph bottom dweller...

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Wyomingite

Fish Wrangler
Oct 16, 2008
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Wonderful Windy Wyoming
Real Name
Ivan
Oscars are a classic tank bred fish for over 30 years. I haven't heard of one living for 10+ years in hard water without getting HITH. They live, but the high TDS value of hard versus soft water, eventually plays a toll on their osmotic regulation, leading to sickness and then HITH.
Oscars have been captive bred for 50 years or more. I had a tank bred albino 30 years ago. The last oscar I had lived 14 years in my tanks, it just died last year. It was a full grown rescue when I got it and it had severe HITH. It took about a year to get the HITH cured up, which I did. Carbon, heavy metal poisoning, poor water quality (especially high nitrates), and poor diet (imbalanced Ca/P/Mg levels and vitamin C deficiency) are the usual accepted causes, or "suspected" causes more appropriately. It's still not clear whether bacteria and flagellates associated with the two are the cause or opportunistic colonists of the open wounds, although infections of both Spironucleus vortens and Hexamita salmonis have been proposed as causative organisms. To that effect, studies of seasonal infection rates of HITH in wild populations of east African species of both Oreochromis and Tilapia spp. have shown an increase of HITH during the colder seasons and appearing to be due to an increase in Spironucleus infection rates. This has been borne out by an increase of HITH in specimens deliberately infected under laboratory conditions. There is research supporting all of the previous deficiencies I've listed as possible causes of HITH and HLLE, and there is research dismissing each of them as causes. I've never seen and currently can not find anything that links HITH or HLLE to impaired/inefficient osmoregulation due to water hardness, either via Google or Google Scholar. I'd be interested to see any paper or article supporting that hypothesis. My personal experience doesn't support it. Regardless I doubt that there is any more evidence supporting impaired osmoregulation as a cause than there is proof supporting other theories or causes. It may contribute to both of these conditions in some cases, but probably isn't a sole cause.

Most oscars don't live longer than 10 years without getting HITH or HLLE because they are poorly taken care of. Period. Because they're so commonly sold as a staple in the hobby, people don't take their status as a large cichlid seriously, or people don't understand the type of care that a large cichlid requires. Whereas other large cichlids tend to end up with specialists or at least experienced hobbyists, oscars often end up poorly fed in too small tanks with poor water conditions. They aren't treated like the big cichlids with somewhat specialized needs that they are.

WYite
 

FishAddict74

AC Members
Dec 8, 2020
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Whereas other large cichlids tend to end up with specialists or at least experienced hobbyists, oscars often end up poorly fed in too small tanks with poor water conditions. They aren't treated like the big cichlids with somewhat specialized needs that they are.
That’s the key right there. Oscars are treated like beginner fish when in reality they’re for experienced keepers
An appropriate sized tank and frequent and proper maintenance along with proper diet are what’s really important with any large cichlid
 

rocksor

Registered Member
Jan 5, 2012
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That’s the key right there. Oscars are treated like beginner fish when in reality they’re for experienced keepers
An appropriate sized tank and frequent and proper maintenance along with proper diet are what’s really important with any large cichlid
So what is appropriate with Oscars? I ve known folks who do everything to keep nitrates below 20ppm through fin level changes as well as multiple water changes a week in a 120 gallon tank. They’ve never been able to stop the Oscar, a single fish in the tank, from getting HITH after 5-6 years. They are raised from 2-3” solely on pellets, earthworms, crickets. The hard water is treated for chloramines.
 
Last edited:

rocksor

Registered Member
Jan 5, 2012
4
1
3
Oscars have been captive bred for 50 years or more. I had a tank bred albino 30 years ago. The last oscar I had lived 14 years in my tanks, it just died last year. It was a full grown rescue when I got it and it had severe HITH. It took about a year to get the HITH cured up, which I did. Carbon, heavy metal poisoning, poor water quality (especially high nitrates), and poor diet (imbalanced Ca/P/Mg levels and vitamin C deficiency) are the usual accepted causes, or "suspected" causes more appropriately. It's still not clear whether bacteria and flagellates associated with the two are the cause or opportunistic colonists of the open wounds, although infections of both Spironucleus vortens and Hexamita salmonis have been proposed as causative organisms. To that effect, studies of seasonal infection rates of HITH in wild populations of east African species of both Oreochromis and Tilapia spp. have shown an increase of HITH during the colder seasons and appearing to be due to an increase in Spironucleus infection rates. This has been borne out by an increase of HITH in specimens deliberately infected under laboratory conditions. There is research supporting all of the previous deficiencies I've listed as possible causes of HITH and HLLE, and there is research dismissing each of them as causes. I've never seen and currently can not find anything that links HITH or HLLE to impaired/inefficient osmoregulation due to water hardness, either via Google or Google Scholar. I'd be interested to see any paper or article supporting that hypothesis. My personal experience doesn't support it. Regardless I doubt that there is any more evidence supporting impaired osmoregulation as a cause than there is proof supporting other theories or causes. It may contribute to both of these conditions in some cases, but probably isn't a sole cause.

Most oscars don't live longer than 10 years without getting HITH or HLLE because they are poorly taken care of. Period. Because they're so commonly sold as a staple in the hobby, people don't take their status as a large cichlid seriously, or people don't understand the type of care that a large cichlid requires. Whereas other large cichlids tend to end up with specialists or at least experienced hobbyists, oscars often end up poorly fed in too small tanks with poor water conditions. They aren't treated like the big cichlids with somewhat specialized needs that they are.

WYite
well then I think you’ve narrowed down a possibility for me, considering myself and others who had issues with hard water are on municipalities that process the water and then add chlorine/chloramine (necessitating water conditioners) whereas, you’re on well water.
 
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FishAddict74

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Dec 8, 2020
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So what is appropriate with Oscars? I ve known folks who do everything to keep nitrates below 20ppm through fin level changes as well as multiple water changes a week in a 120 gallon tank. They’ve never been able to stop the Oscar, a single fish in the tank, from getting HITH past 5-6 years. They are raised from 2-3” solely on pellets, earthworms, crickets. The hard water is treated for chloramines.
There’s no way of knowing what caused it in their Oscars. It a similar situation to Malawi bloat where there’s lots of theories but nobody really knows 100% what the cause is. I’ve kept a few Oscars throughout my life and never had one get hole in the head. My personal belief is it’s a weakened immune system due to over breeding, bad genes and inbreeding. PH is something I choose to generally not mess with and not worry about too much except with WC fish and I almost never lose fish. I’m not saying PH can’t possibly be the cause, I just find it unlikely to be the cause in most cases.
 

rocksor

Registered Member
Jan 5, 2012
4
1
3
There’s no way of knowing what caused it in their Oscars. It a similar situation to Malawi bloat where there’s lots of theories but nobody really knows 100% what the cause is. I’ve kept a few Oscars throughout my life and never had one get hole in the head. My personal belief is it’s a weakened immune system due to over breeding, bad genes and inbreeding. PH is something I choose to generally not mess with and not worry about too much except with WC fish and I almost never lose fish. I’m not saying PH can’t possibly be the cause, I just find it unlikely to be the cause in most cases.
i was referring to GH/TDS
 
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