How do I stabilize my PH????

D

D_K

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Apr 26, 2009
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SE WI
I am posting this in the n00b forum because I am sure that I am missing something simple in this equation. Anways, here is the tank setup:

-Tank is a 38 gallon that I just sent up a couple of months back and only has 3 emerald cats and 3 otos in it but will soon be home to more.
-Tank has a decent amount of slate that testing showed to be neutral.
-The substrate is a mix of colored sand and fine gravel that is all suppose to be neutral.
-Currently there are only a couple of anubias nana plants in there but I will be adding more later and with that some CO2 supplementation.
-The tap water is insanely hard here. I live in a townhouse and I haven't gotten a hard answer on if they do any treatments of the water. Some say they soften it (if they are, it ain't working) and the owners haven't told me anything yet. I will have to try to find a liquid test kit for this but it's hard enough to almost max out the test strips. Either way, because of this I fill the tank with a 50/50 mix of tap and RO that I treat with Prime.
-I also treat the water with both a small quantity of black water extract and peat moss.

So the problem is that after a water change this tank starts out with a ph of 7.8. I don't think it's possible to get that any lower so I just want to keep it stable. Unfortunately after just a week of run time the ph always climbs up to 8.0 or just a tad higher. I am guessing the hardwater here is at fault but I don't know how to fix it. When I do CO2 supplementation, do I need something more then a DIY kit to really crank up the CO2 or will that just drop the ph but not stabilize it? Do I need to do some sort of filtering of the tap water even? I don't have an issue with doing regular water changes so that it won't get too far above 8.0 but I really hate to keep slamming the fish from that level back to 7.8 in 10 minutes during the water change.

Anyone have some suggestions?:confused:
 
Anubias don't need CO2, and IME it's more trouble than it's worth to try to lower pH and hardness and maintain level values. If you have hard, alkaline water then choose stock that will live in those conditions. In any case, stablilty is more important than a certain number for pH. Hardness may have a negative affect on some soft-water species, particularly for breeding, but isn't likely to kill most fish.
I use coral in all my tanks to buffer the pH around 8. I keep African, CA, and SA cichlids as well as botia's, several different types of pleco's, and Endler's livebearers w/out any problems from water chemistry.
 
Alot of times pH will rise on tapwater because of aerating it which drives off dissolved CO2. In your situation I'd pick fish that like the water you have. Livebearers, Goldfish, Africans, etc. If you add CO2 the pH will naturally drop a bit. If you want to really fix the problem you'll need an RO or DI system to remove the minerals and then add back some to get to the level you want. Or you could mix the purified water with your tap to get the right numbers.
 
Your water's identical to my well water. Mine is stored 200 ft underground uner pressure. When it comes up through the pipes it's super saturated with CO2 (like the fizz in soda). The pH is 7.2 straight out of the tap and after the water sits 24 hrs and gets a chance to age the pH is 8. Although the kh and gh is the same whether aged or straight out of the tap. The good news about water as hard as mine (and yours) is that it's extremely stable. You try to add driftwood or crushed coral and it's so well buffered by itself that it holds the pH as the same spot either way. I've got 20+ tanks and use the same water in all of them from Mollys to Discus and all my fish thrive. I wouldn't attempt wild-caught Angels or wild-caught Discus in this water but anything else seems to do great.
 
A change from 7.8 to 8 or a little above doesn't matter. Just ignore it and stop stressing.
 
Have you tested the hardness of the water? My tap water has a high pH but a low KH, meaning the water is alkaline but soft. If you're using RO water, peat and CO2 you've probably completely knocked out your KH. If you don't have a high enough KH your pH can swing all over the place. If you test the pH of your tank before and after a water change you'll see what I mean.

There are a few good ways to remedy the problem, the easiest being to just live with what you have and stop trying to fix it, which I do in one of my tanks. If you want to keep with your current set up of trying to fix the water I also recommend putting some crushed coral in your filter. Start with a little bit and work your way up until you get to the level you want. Either way, I'd try to get a KH of at least 4 degrees to keep your pH from swinging.
 
Ditto Ditto Ditto. Live with the water you have; get fish that are compatible. I'd skip the peat and blackwater unless you like the look. I suspect your water is so well buffered that they won't help much.

Anubias will be fine in that water, but I wouldnt add CO2 to it. Anubias is a lo-light slow-grower anyway.
 
Dr. Awkward said:
Have you tested the hardness of the water? My tap water has a high pH but a low KH, meaning the water is alkaline but soft. If you're using RO water, peat and CO2 you've probably completely knocked out your KH. If you don't have a high enough KH your pH can swing all over the place. If you test the pH of your tank before and after a water change you'll see what I mean.

There are a few good ways to remedy the problem, the easiest being to just live with what you have and stop trying to fix it, which I do in one of my tanks. If you want to keep with your current set up of trying to fix the water I also recommend putting some crushed coral in your filter. Start with a little bit and work your way up until you get to the level you want. Either way, I'd try to get a KH of at least 4 degrees to keep your pH from swinging.
Click to expand...

There's the answer I was looking for!!!:thm:

I sure am not trying to get the perfect PH or perfect anything for that matter, I just don't like it when the water parameters are swinging around.

Currently I don't have any CO2 supplementation. I been been going back and forth on that one. I will be adding more non-anubias plants soon but they will all be low light ones. So maybe I won't need it.

Either way I will have to pick up a good test kit for KH when I get the chance. If it is out of fwack though, won't adding coral crank up the PH as much as it will stabilize it?
 
D_K said:
If it is out of fwack though, won't adding coral crank up the PH as much as it will stabilize it?
Click to expand...

Yes, it will up the pH but you should be able to control how much. It will take some time to get the ratio right. You'll have to figure out how much coral to add depending on how much you lower the pH with CO2, peat, etc. If you do add CO2 you will see the pH drop at least a point, putting you in the acidic range. You'll want to test the pH before a water change to get an accurate reading. Then start adding the coral a handful at a time to the filter (in a mesh bag). It will take a day or two for the coral to have an effect so you'll need to wait it out.

You can do the same thing with peat, but peat can be dangerous because one day you think everything is great and the next the pH will drop so low your fish will suffer. If you do use peat I recommend letting the peat soak in a glass of tank water overnight. Once the peat water pH gets down around 5 you can pour that water, minus the peat, back into your tank until you get the pH you're after. It's a hassle because you have to do that every water change but you will not have to worry about overdoing it. If you've been adding the peat directly into the tank for awhile and have a good idea of the effects you can just forget I said all that other stuff. :)
 
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