How Freshwater Deep Sand Beds Work

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Flear

AC Members
Nov 23, 2012
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nice, seperated would be great :)
the rotifer pack alone i noticed contains several different kinds of rotifers, they don't go into details on the site, but i guess i could email and inquire.
rotifers are typically smaller than daphinia
daphnia for sure (don't know about others) can be raised and cultured with greenwater (would take an extra 2 buckets to have this for your tank, one for greenwater, one for daphnia

i haven't considered single-celled critters, mostly because they're different.

i'm going to have to give that culture pack a try, or make seperate orders for everything except the things i don't want.

currently i'm leaning towards a dense mossy plant (don't have it now) that can hid plankton from the fish so they have some life expectancy, except the ones that venture into the open water.

as they don't really rate plankton by diet (have to track each down individually)

but sessile organisms are also rising on my curiosity list (those that stay ankered- can't spell)

now if i could find detritus feeding tiny critters, i'd like that.
 

Legot

Registered Member
Jun 28, 2013
4
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Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum (and several others) but I really want to see this thread progress. I've been keeping a DSB in my tank for maybe 6 months now, and they have been excellent. My first was a 10 Gallon with a ~3" DSB, then it was increased to 4" about a month in. It worked really well, any fish waste was dissolved by the next morning, and there were never any deaths in the tank. That setup stayed for 4 months, then was upgraded to a 20 Long with a 3" DSB (with sections going as deep as 5")+a 10 Gallon Sump with a full 6" DSB.

The display tank is having some obnoxious plant and algae problems, so I can reason that there will be no dosing required once I get a working CO2 system in place. My upper layer substrate creatures are MTS and an apparently small number of nematodes, who don't actually stir it, they just kind of exist.

Current inhabatents:
Main tank: 1 Betta, 2 Otos, 1 Nerite
Really sad Eleocharis montevidensis, sad Elocharis acicularis
A fair amount of Staghorn, a bit of BBA
Sump: 2 Fathead minnows
Echinodorus tenellus, Bacopa monnieri, a little bit of the other two
A bit of BBA and staghorn

I'm currently looking into getting some shrimp for the main and the sump, then building an 8"x8"x8" cube for my betta using a fine grade sand to see if I can get away with something like a 2" DSB.

Any questions about my setup? I can add pics if anyone is interested. Some additional information, I currently use Pool Filter Sand, The main tank is very high light (42 Watts of Cheap and Cheerful Chinese LEDs), and the sump is High light (12W of the same LEDs suspended 8" over 5" deep water. No CO2 even though it really needs it, no ferts. Just over 21 Gallons water volume.
 

Legot

Registered Member
Jun 28, 2013
4
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Oh yeah, and the nitrates are being controlled well enough by the DSB that there are visible nitrogen bubbles floating up from the substrate.
 

Glabe

River Rat
May 10, 2011
1,353
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Love this old thread! Thanks for bringing it back :thm:
 

Legot

Registered Member
Jun 28, 2013
4
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0
Love this old thread! Thanks for bringing it back :thm:
Definately trying!

My reasoning behind using a "shallow DSB" in the planned nano tank comes from mud bottomed streams and tributaries. Here at least, many of the offshoots from lakes start with an extremely fine muddy bottom above a layer of clay, the deeper you go the finer the particles. Interestingly enough the floor is composed of what I can guess are about 2" layers of changing temperatures, I have no explanation and no hard data for this, but if you ever go somewhere with very fine mud beneath the water and stick your foot or arm deep into the mud you should be able to feel the temp change from cool to warm in layers.

I think that these layers of heat are caused by the constant death and decomposition of anaerobic bacteria, and the cool areas exist because the bacteria is living. The death would be because of the lack of "food" for the bacteria, and the layers would be explained by the lower bacteria feeding on what has died above it.

I think that with our aquarium DSBs we never see the alternating temperature layers because 1) we never check and 2) the substrates we use are too large to allow sufficiently shallow areas of anarobicness. In the same fine riverbeds the anaerobic layer seems to start just over 1/2" from the upper layer, which would be the only area useful in short-term (meaning the lifespan of an aquarium setup) nitrate reduction.

Thoughts?
 

Flear

AC Members
Nov 23, 2012
29
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nothing decomposes on it's own, ... to 'decompose' something is activily eating it (bacteria) and breaking it down

without bacteria, if anything died, (well worms & maggots too - you get the idea), ... if nothing is eating a dead body, it will mummify as it dries out, i doubt there would be any smells as well
 

Flear

AC Members
Nov 23, 2012
29
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the finer the particles that compose the sandbed (not nessissarily sand) the sooner it will reach anaerobic conditions
silt & find detritus will populate with bacteria that will consume all available oxygen very close to the surface resulting in DSB-like activity likewise very close to the surface.
 

turtletank

Registered Member
Feb 12, 2017
2
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im new here, i have a 72g bowfront tank for a red eared slider turtle. basic setup; about an inch or so of river rock, a pvc dock, an old terra brand rock filter that broke so its decor with a fountain pump to circulate water, and my turtles pet goldfish (it was a feeder fish that survived and is now the size of a filet mingon steak). the tank is 3/4ths full or so (most the time less).

im looking into doing an extremly deep sand bed display refugium/water scrubber with either a spare 20 or 40 gallon tank (both being my res old tanks as ive been able to upgrade)

excuse my terminology please. if i say something that isnt understood ask!

the refugium plan is to be simple, 2 plexiglass dividers, one on each side of the tank. sand will be the primary "filler" unless told different. the plexiglass will go from the top down stopping a few inches from the bottom.

water will flow from the inlet, down through lava rock, egg crate, lava rock, sand. the lava rock is so that the water flow doesnt wash the sand away. the water will then flow up around plants and back down into the sand to peagravel egg crate peagravel (same principle with the washout). and out to a 55 gallon barrel filter which will sit below the refugium piped center down and wash up through various gravel sand and a filter pad before being pumped back to the turtle tank. (over filtration is ok in my book expecially since its the last stage.

the projected sand depth will be about 5-6" or maybe more as it will be the main mechanical and biological filter for turtle tank.

i chose the water current to go down up down because i want as much turtle waste as possible to interconnect with the plants, and didnt much care for the "waterfall" style as i thought the waste could wash pass the plants too quickly, like a paper boat placed on a creek current.

the main life of the refugium will be plants, maybe some live bearing fish (guppies or swordtails [to double over as turtle food]), mts (if they can travel that deep in sand) an assasian snail or 2 and after reading on here california blackworm. i may throw a crawdad in (lobster, crawdad, crayfish, they are the same in freshwater with differnt names)

main worry is toxins in the abnormally deep sand and the way the sand is catching the crud

1 need to know if my plan will work?
2 and other suggestions on aquatic life to help stir the sand?

id like good feedback and if some of the original people are around like ddk id really like feedback from them. thanks all
 
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