How many fish survive the 1st week or so home?

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sillyputty

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Dec 10, 2004
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When you buy fish what is your expected survival rate? In other words, lets say you buy 4 fish and qt them. Over the first week or so how many would you expect to survive?

I am getting tired of having so many sick fish after purchase, but maybe that is the nature of the hobby. The lfs I buy from is not a chain and they really try. They have a 24 hour warrenty but if I take a dead fish in (or even just tell them) they will give me a new one. I know their filtration is individual tanks (not the petco type that runs through all the tanks), and they qt all sick fish when they see them. So I am wondering where the problem is. When one dies, I always test to see if there is an ammonia spike but my parameters always are fine, as expected.

Yesterday I bought 2 baby clown loaches and this morning one was dead. I plan to have 3 but my qt tank is only 5 gallon so was being cautious in getting only 2. Should I get 3 right off? They are only about an inch and a half.

And Harlock, don't yell at me for the clown loaches. I know I don't have a big enough tank for them full grown, but have plenty of room in my 37 right now. When they get too big, I will just have to get them a bigger home, won't I? :D :laugh:
 
This is a really difficult question to answer. The LFS has a lot to do with it, and so does the acclimation process. But even with all of the controllables under control there are often unseen forces at work, and therefore some fatalities.

There are a couple of thigns you can do to increase your odds. one is observe fish at length in the LFS. Secondly is talk your LFS into reserving fish for you, so you can watch them in their tank for a period before taking them home. There are several good LFS's in columbus that I frequent, but only one that I will buy livestock from. Plain and simple, they have better fish and are more dilligent about housing them well and watching them for potential problems. they get their fish from the same suppliers as the other stores ( As far as I know) but their system is more stable, and most importantly their employees are more qualified and observant. they will hold fish for you free of charge for any reasonable length of time. and allow you to stop in and watch what is going on. My Oscar had ich at the LFS the first time I ever saw him. he was in treatment and marked accordingly. Furthermore, once the tank was clear of ich and doing well. the LFS would not sell the fish for a full 3 weeks. they explained that they do not like to sell fish with potential problems, and they wanted to observe the fish for long enough to make sure they were healthy. The result, is that I have a beautiful healthy Oscar that probably wouldn't be alive at all if he had been shipped to a different store.
LFS's cannot prevent the introduction of disease into their tanks it's just not a feasable goal. how they act and react is what seperates the good ones from the bad ones.

As far as acclimation, there is always much debate about how it should be done. I acclimate very slowly especially with fish like loaches. These fish are more sensative to changes in Hardness and tds levels (or at least seem to be) It usually takes me an hour or two to acclimate a sensative fish. I slowly add quantities of tank water to the bag, and essentially preform multiple small water changes on the fish bag over the course of a few hours. I keep track of the amount and number of water changes until the bag is well over 80% tank water, and then put the fish in the q-tank. The only real danger to slow acclimation is ammonia build-up in the transport bag. but by changing the water in small volumes frequently, this shouldn't be an issue. I generally hang the bag in the water during this operation so the temp can adjust as well. and keep the lights off as much as possible, as fish stay calmer in the dark than when they are stuck at the top of the tank with bright lights.


All in all there will still be fish come home and not survive, and there isn't any way to quantify it or control it completely. I have not had a single large fish die in recent years, but while trying to accumulate guppy breeding stock, I have had considerable die off with both feeders and fancies. All within the first 48 hours after coming home.

You may want to look around for a different LFS, OR have a talk with your LFS. The garantees are nice, but it's still a pain to keep going back and trying to get enough fish to fill your tank the way you want. Maybe they will hold fish for you, and ensure they are healthy for a couple of weeks before you take them home.
 
I guess maybe I am an optimist, but if I buy four fish I fully expect every one of them to survice QT and live long full lives. Daveedka made some great points.

Oh, and I never yell. I just educate. ;)
 
I haven't got the QT tank up yet, but in adding new fish to my tank, I'm with Harlock, I fully expect them to live!! I now that I think I've finally got a hang of everything, I haven't lost a fish mysteriously in a long time! I would try a new LFS and make sure that your tanks are all at the proper levels. You could take a water sample to the LFS and make sure they match up with what you get a home. As for the loaches, I have heard that when they are that small they are incredibly sensitive.
 
Ive lost one fish, which was 3 weeks after i got it for birthing complications. MY LFS and petco have great fish.
 
I re-aquired this hobby after 25 years. All 10 fish survived. Demand 100% survival rate from the LFS AND yourself. Sorry to hear about the clown loach. I still remeber the one I had 25 years ago.
 
I never would have gotten into this hobby if I thought the fish were going to die. I've lost 2 fish and that was 2 too many. 1 died the second day, 1 after a few weeks. If I had known about fishless cycles and other stuff, maybe I would not have lost any.

This forum has been very educational for me.
 
Interesting topic. I've seen a few LFS employees post saying that up to 40% of the fish shipped into stores either arrive dead or die soon after.
I belive both places I get fish both ship from Florida and Southeast Asia (I've also seen wild caught fish from other places for sale). After making these long trips, I'm not surprised some of the fish I've purchased have succumbed to 'shipping stress' and died soon after I got them home, even after being acclimated properly - if I get sensitive young fish like tiny corys, otos or neons, I actually tend to buy a few more than I want.
 
I've read in a few books as well as on this site that small Clown Loaches don't do very well. Once they hit about 3.5-4 inches the hard part is over and they should be fine. One post I think I saw recommended getting about 5 and hoping for 1 or 2 survivors. I bought 3 about 2 months ago and one died in the first week, but I think he must have had some internal parasite because he just wasted away even though he was eating. Also, I've read that captive bread and net caught fishes do up to 90% better than other methods. These fish have a 90% chance of making into your home and surviving. The other method is the use of cyanide for capture. These fish only have about a 10% chance of surviving the process of being caught, wholesale, retail, and then ultamelty your home. Of the fish that have been caught using cycanide and that actually do make it to your home 90% of those will ultimately die "mysteriously" within a few days. Some research has been done that suggests the first time they are fed, they die shortly after due to organ problems related to the cyanide. The fish live through transport because they are not fed, to keep costs down as well as water quality up. Fish can go up to a couple of weeks without food during transport. Then we buy them, feed them, and they die. Cyanide caught fishes are caught in larger numbers and are ultimatily cheaper. But if less than 10% make it to your home, and maybe 10% of that actually live, what's the point?
 
Wow, thanks Daveedka, great post and very helpful! I have been out and brought back two more little friends. I think I have been smitten by these cute little creatures. Anyway, I have taken about an hour to aclimate them to the qt tank, replacing the water in the bag little by little, and left the light off and will leave it off.
I noticed these at the LFS a couple of weeks ago and they were all very busy in the tank. I didn't realize they were that sensitive. This morning the surviving loach was pretty hidden and not wanting to move but now is out with the others so hopefully he will be ok. Can anyone tell me how to tell male and female?
 
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