how quickly can ich become fatal

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mrbill70

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Nov 28, 2006
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Hi everyone. I have a 55 gallon freshwater tank with 5 tiger barbs, 4 rainbowfish, 2 clown loaches, ornate pictus catfish, peppermint pleco, and 2 gouramis. I have been away for the past couple days, but the fish have been taken care of (I dont do the feeding to begin with..just tank maintenance). To this point (tank has been set up 6 months) I have not lost any fish. I had a previous bout of ich when I noticed some white spots on a rainbowfish. Two days of quick cure later and all was well. Anyway, I was looking at the tank this afternoon and couldnt find my pleco or clown loaches. One clown loach and my pleco were history. My remaining clown loach is covered with ich spots along with a gouramis. I removed the carbon from the filters and dosed again with quick cure. I tested the water to try to determine the length of time the fish had been dead (ammonia spike), but the ammonia was 0 along with nitrites (nitrates were 10). The only thing slightly different was the ph which registers 7.6. This is strange since my tank usually has a steady ph around 6.7, and my tap water is about 7.4. My question is this, how fast can ich kill? Im upset about losing 3 fish, and last time I checked (a few days ago) all the fish looked active and healthy. The water tests fine, I just want to make sure im not missing some other hidden problem.

I should also mention that I added the pictus catfish and pleco about 2.5-3 weeks ago. I acclimated them over about 30 mins and didnt add the lfs water, but it could have possibly come in with the new additions.
 
Well the deadliness of ich depends on the type of fish, the current health status, and the extent of the the infection. Certainly the change in pH isn't helping. A switch from 6.7 to 7.6 is one hell of a swing (basically your acidity is about 1/8 of what it used to be) and this could be why you had an ich outbreak (stress).
 
dont think it is ich

Im going through tables of various freshwater diseases right now, but I dont think it is ich. I woke up this morning with another dead clown loach, and half the rest of my fish are covered. It isnt as much clearly defined white specks, but more like a cottonish type stuff over their body. Some speckeled areas, but definitely cottonish, almost stringy like material. Tomorrow im going to wake up with an entirely dead tank it would seem.
 
Hi,
How often do you do water changes and gravel vacs? What is the kh of your tank - that pH swing is too much!

As to how fast ich can kill, this is a non issue since it can and does kill the fish before we even see the white salt dots on the fish. It attacks their gill membranes...

As to quick cure, read about the life cycle ich and you'll find out why using that medicine as directed won't work. Salt and heat is the way to go... the medicines will kill the bugs falling off the fish, but won't be in the water when all the new ones hatch out, hence ich's life cycle continues on.

As to the cottony stuff. Could be fungus, it attacks damaged tissue. A severe ich outbreak would leave the fish wide open to these secondary attacks. Could also be bacterial infections for the same reasons.

So, start by getting back to us with your ammonia, nitrites and especially nitrates. Declining water quality could have led to this outbreak especially since you didn't QT your new fish - they probably brought in the ich on their bodies. If you do loose every fish, bump your temp WAY up (89) and leave it there for a week while continuing to feed the tank fish food to keep the bacteria alive. Don't add any fish for at least this week, maybe 2. Do massive water changes before you add anything after this fishless period.

If your nitrates are very high now, - and your fish are still living tomorrow- you'll need to start with lots of daily small water changes to slowly reduce their levels to the 20 range at most until all your fish heal up. You'll also need to start treating ich with salt and heat, be sure to add extra airstones/bubblers to get more oxygen into the water.


Cathy
 
water parameters as of 5 mins ago

ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0.5 (barely registers)
ph: 6.7 (most likely there was something wrong with my ph test last night..maybe I added 1 too many drops or the like)
temp: 76.5

I do a 10% change per week and vaccum the gravel every other week along with cleaning the glass. The tank has been running perfect until I added the last few fish (at once) about 2.5 weeks ago. I also cleaned the entire tank the day before introducing the new fish (cleaned decorations in a bucket of tank water, scrubbed glass, water change).
 
Pics below..

The clown loach died sometime between 10pm and 7am last night. The catfish is still alive but very sluggish (along with half of the other fish). He is also covered in the spots.

IMGA0055.JPG IMGA0060.JPG
 
Do massive water changes - at least 50% every other day. The 10% per week with every other week gravel vac is not nearly enough. You probably brought the disease into your tank with your new fish, and since you don't do large water changes and cleanings on a regular basis the pathogens that you brought in multiplied quickly and overwhelmed your tank. When you do large water changes, you are reducing the amounts of all kinds of parasites and bacteria in your tank... you are giving your fish their best shot at fighting off disease.

As to what you have now. Do a HUGE water change, a 50%, add back in 10 gallons and do another one... gravel vac. Bump up temps to at least 86, lower the water level to increase splash, add an extra airstone/bubble wand. Slowly start adding some salt - dissolve some in your clean water. You have no more loaches right? So, add enough salt to get up to 1 teaspoon per gallon by the end of the day. By the end of tomorrow you will want to be at 1.5 teasp. per gallon - see if you can find out if cat fish are touchy about salt. If they are, stop with the 1 teasp. per gallon.

You'll have to keep doing water changes, and replacing the salt you take out, so measure carefully. If you have 50g's tank water - by the end of the day you should have added a total of 50teasp. salt, you might want to add 25 teasp. wait 4 hours and add the rest.

Seems to me you have a secondary infection going on here, see what others say, but I'd go with salt and heat until you get a solid answer about adding an antibiotic. (Most fungus looking infections are not fungus, but bacteria).

Hope your fish make it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Consistent water changes are crucial.

Cathy
 
yikes...now the catfish is turning yellow...camera battery is dead so no pic for awhile. I did the 50% water change so we shall see.
 
don't use any more chemical medications! clown loaches especially and plecos are both sensitive to ich chemicals. the medication has contributed to killing them, which is why they died so quickly. the chemical exposure that didn't kill them last time built up. probably it says on the label to be careful using around scaleless fish? loaches and plecos fall into that category (I know plecos have 'armor' on top, but them have soft scaleless bellies). this is also why the other catfish is changing color.

when was the other 'bout' with ich? it seems a lot more likely that the ich was not completely killed off with only two days of treatment, and has been waiting for a time exactly like this one. the fish are still being fed but without you there the tank was not cleaned, which caused them to be exposed to less than great water conditions and allowed the ich parasites to move right back in.

next time use a hospital tank for treatment and only treat fish that are visibly affected. use a quarantine tank when buying new fish so that any bugs or parasites are gotten rid of before going into your main tank. ich is caused by bad water conditions and stressed fish which leads to lowered immune response and susceptibility to infestation. keep your water clean, and avoid stress. possibly your new catfish have been trying to find territory vs. the loaches and all of them have been stressed by not having enough bottom space to claim.

good luck with the rest of your fish. and don't buy any more clown loaches. they don't belong in a 55g tank anyway, that was kind of a blessing in disguise.
 
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