How to light a 3' deep tank?

Geeky1

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Aug 18, 2003
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I'm going to be buying a 10' long x 3' deep tank (30" or 36" front to back), which will be a freshwater planted aquarium. I haven't decided exactly what I'm going to keep in it yet, although Discus are a possibility. Anyhow, the manufacturer of the tank recommended that I light it with 4 24" compact fluorescent lights, which he said he thought were 96w apiece. As far as I know, the only CF bulbs that'll fit under a 24" hood are 65w or less, so I'm assuming they're 65w apiece, which works out to 260w. 260w seems awfully low for a 3 foot deep tank with live plants in it...

I was looking at substituting either 2 48" or 3 36" lights with the following specifications:

2x 400w 6500k Halides
2x 95/110w Actinic VHO

Keep in mind that those specifications are per unit, so the total wattage would be 2040w for 2 48" units or 2970 for 3 36" units...

What do you guys recommend?
 
10ft x 36" deep=> I would use 35" 96 w powercompacts from A&H.

You'll need about 8-12 of them. See how much this cost.

These will light the tank well at this depth.
You'll need a lot of substrate, large pump and a good easy pre plumbed water changing set up, a sump would be ideal and CO2 gas would also help a great deal if it's planted.

Slower growers and driftwood will make the maintenance much easier. Rocks also. See some of the larger Amano tanks and Jeff's over at Aquatic designs in TX.
Crypts and Anubias and ferns on driftwood look nice and are easy.
Regards,
Tom Barr
 
The substrate will be 2-4" of gravel and/or fluorite with 400-600w of undergravel heaters. The filtration consists of 3 separate circuits:

Circuit 1:
Iwaki 70RLT
Ocean Clear 317 Triple Micron Polystrand Mechanical
Ocean Clear 340 40sq ft. Pleated Mechanical/Biological
Ocean Clear 320 Carbon filter

Circuit 2:
Iwaki 70RLT
Ocean Clear 317 Triple Micron Polystrand Mechanical
Ocean Clear 340 40sq ft. Pleated Mechanical/Biological
AquaUV 40w UV Sterilizer
Ocean Clear 320 Carbon filter

Circuit 3:
Acrylic Tank Manufacturing custom trickle filter

Also, the tank will use a fireplug external heater in addition to the under gravel heaters, and it will have Co2...

So you think 960w is enough for a tank this size then? It will be very densely planted (e.g. similar to Amano's "Nature Aquariums") so...

I just saw a spectacular 8' reef tank in an aquarium magazine (can't remember which one offhand) that was 3' deep... that thing had a good 2000-odd watts of light on it, and the coral was doing very, very well... since the coral and freshwater aquarium plants are from the same general latitude, shouldn't they do well with around 1000w/square meter, which is what this reef tank has?
 
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It really depends on the kinds of plants you have. I'm with Tom on crypts & anubias. Go with medium to low light plants because this is going to be a public aquarium. You don't want to battle constant algae problems.

Lots of cardinal tetras, some large loaches, & groumi's (sp?) would be my choice.

Think low maintenance Geeky1. Keep it simple to start with. Read lots of Amano books :)

Please tell me you're in the Portland, Oregon area so I can come check it out.
 
You're right, I don't want to battle algae constantly. However, I have what may be at least a partial solution to that- baby plecs seem to do a better job than anything else at eating algae. Then at about 4-5" (which is the largest I'll let them get in my 10g) they get lazy, and they tend to start uprooting things...

I've got the last volume in Amano's series, but I haven't got the first two (yet). When I get home today I'll have to see what he's using on his tanks; I know there are some 10' tanks in that book...

Speaking of loaches, I haven't had any luck with clowns... ever. Of course I can't keep fancy guppies alive either. But I kept baby discus in a 10g for months (sold them) and they were dead easy. Never checked the water quality, and I put them in the tank when it was 2 weeks old (the setup, not the fish) so they got to finish cycling the tank too... never had a problem with them. Took flake food right from the start, etc. Figures- I can keep Discus but I can't keep guppies... :rolleyes:

Define "area". I suppose the tank could be in the Portland area, if you have a very, very broad definition of the word. It's in Castroville, California (artichoke capital of the world!). My grandparents own a precision machining company and they just had an 86,000 square foot building built in Castroville, and the tank is going in the lobby...
 
G1,

While you are busy working out how to light a 3' deep aquarium, have you figured out how you are going to clean it?

PP
 
Plan on a bit more substrate than this. Flourite is very good.

Filter is fine. I much prefer sumps but this will work. I would also plan on a CO2 reactor PVC tube on each circuit(roughly a 3" x 24 " with a gas inlet).

UV, don't bother using except for about 1 day after a water change or if in the rare case you get green water.

I will say 12 x 96 w is enough, I set up a 440 gal tank with 8 x96 and it was plenty. Remember that the reflectors are awesome, plus the amount of light froma T-5 with an electronic ballast also increases the amount of light vs an old watt per gal rule.
900-1100 watts is enough.

You can opt for the MH's, I'd use 250's, 5-6 of them.
Have a good lighting person professionally install them built in if you chose this route.

Plan to aquascape so that you are able to hide all components.
Use wood, rock, plants etc to do this.

Also, don't bother with the heating cables thing, it's help is insignificant and it's cost is high. It won't hurt but ifI had all the $, I still would not use them in any of my personal tanks, and yes, I've used them over long periods and I have used 3 brands, dupla, sandpoint and zoom med plus have built several of my own from raw parts. Spend the $ on the substrae instead.

Also, get a couple of bags of ground peat and add this to the bottom of the substrate along with some old filthy mulm from severval vacuumed established tanks from the LFS, decant off the clear supernatant, save the detritus on the bottom, add this to the bottom layer with the peat and mix with about 1" worth of flourite. Top with 2-5 inches of flourite, also feed some of this into the filter also.

You now have cycled your tank.

Reef tanks need more light than any planted tank does, at least SPS tanks do, soft corals etc can get by with less etc, but more light is not better, you can learn the hard way if you so choose.

You will also want to get KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4 and some traces, like plantex CMS etc.
You can buy the fert's from agriculure grass lawn turf wholesalers for about 20-30$ per 50lbs.
The plantex will be about 35-45$ for 5lbs of dry and this should last a few years.

20 to 50lb CO2 bottles will be needed.

Driftwood, I have wood that is similar to Amano's big 12ft x 6ft x 6ft monster tank here and we have tons of it. See the Book of ADA.

Very beautiful. Redwood stumps are also a prime idea locally.

If you can see this tank, note how the Anubias are used in the lower reaches along with crytps etc.

C c. variety balansae is great since it gets about 24-30 inches long and is a nice grassy bright green metallic sheen.

Much of the wood is planted with narrow leaf java fern or Bolbitus(easy to get at).

The general layout is based with a central mound of rocks supporting the wood with some open space along the front/sides of the glass.

It is much better to be in the lower end of the light with good CO2
and nutrients as this is the best overall combo for work load and over all look and presentation for an aquascape of this size that you plan on keeping looking good for any length of time. Less glass algae also.

More light will => more work.
Your "customer" and plants will also be pleased with this amount.

I am in the bay area often(permanently next year) and there is an excellent friend of mine from the Monterey Aquarium who does excellent contract/consulting work if you are interested as I do on ocassion.

He's _the_ best person in the world for jellyfish tank. He has a very nice Discus 250 gallon tank running at the present time which he maintains and is one of the nicest Discus tanks I've seen to date, certain within the USA.

Pleco's are tough to catch in a large tank later.
I'd opt for another algae eater, also, don't depend/rely on algae eaters to solve your algae issues, they are only icing on the cake.
Amano shrimps in mass are good, but costly and may prove tough in this large tank(Get loss in the over flow, Discus eating them etc after they get good sized etc).
You'd need 500+ of them or so which would be about 300-400$.

I can recommend some great local Discus breeders for the stock.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Thanks for all the help...

Couple more questions (want to make sure I get this right!)

How deep of a substrate would you recommend?

The wet/dry filter ATM is building has a sump (albiet a small one). What would I use a sump for, other than the float valve for the water level maintenance and as a place to drain/fill the tank?

They (ATM) threw the UV in there (most likely because they wanted to sell one to me...) but it seems like a good idea to me. Putting it before the carbon should stop any free radicals that may be generated... is there any reason NOT to use one?

I'll go with your recommendation on the lighting. However, whether I go with CFs or MHs depends on finding someone to build the hoods... this tank is going in the lobby of the new building that my grandparents just had built for their business... I don't have the time to build a hood myself, unfortunately, so I'm going to have to get someone to do it. Right now I'm looking at the PFO/IceCap units from MarineDepot, which are MH/CF or VHO combinations. I was going to use 6500k MH bulbs if I use MHs, but I was also going to use some actinic fluorescents to balance out the color a bit. Any comments/suggestions on that?

Thanks for the heads up on the heating cables... I'll skip those then.

About the peat: if I go with something other than Discus, something that likes a somewhat higher pH, I assume I shouldn't use the peat since it'll tend to lower the pH... I'll probably vacuum my 10g and my dad's 29g and use the stuff from that. I'd like to use the stuff from a LFS, but I don't want to risk introducing diseases into the tank...

In terms of fertilizers, I was going to use a combination of SeaChem's Flourish tablets and the Flourish liquid... would those be sufficient?

Regarding the Co2, I was actually going to use those big 1A cylinders... those small Co2 tanks are expensive, and the 1A should last me a long, long time...

In terms of planting, I'd really like to go with a large variety of stuff. I know next to nothing about aquatic plants, but I would like to keep some of the species that (I think) require higher light levels, e.g. Cabomba caroliniana (sp?)

What would you recommend as algae eaters other than Plecs? The shrimp sound like a possibility, but as you said, they'll probably be eaten by just about anything I put in there. Since I'm considering schools of smaller barbs (Tiger, Cherry, Checkered, Zebra Danios, Giant Danios, etc.) they'd probably be picked to death, while if I keep Discus, they'll probably be eaten outright... Also, I'm not terribly fond of inverts. I don't mind them, but outside of Octopus, I'm not really a big fan of them... A few big Plecs would take care of the algae, but they'll cause more problems than they'll solve if they're big... How about using Clown Plecs or other smaller species? Otocinclus could be used, but they never seem to do very well at all- I usually loose all the ones I put in my 10g within 2 weeks...

I may have to take you up on those offers... thanks!

Oh, one other thing- do you know of anywhere to get fluorite relatively cheap? Dolphin Pet Village, which is my LFS, has it for like $20/15kg, and by the time I pay shipping from Big Al's or That Fish Place, I might as well just buy it locally...
 
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