How to light a 3' deep tank?

2" in the front sloping up to about 6-8" in the rear no viewable side(s).

The sump will need an auto top off for such a large tank, evapration will be high and a small sump will not be able to keep up.
It's a good place for heaters, CO2 reactors, auto top etc.

Free radicals have nothing to do with keeping plants and is a buzz word. I have no idea why they brought that up.

You do NOT use carbon with a planted tank at all.
For lighting color temps, 5000-6500K is what you should stick with, do NOT use atinics, these are for deep water corals.

Peat is good for any planted tank, you are not using much relative to the entire tank and it's in the bottom of the gravel.

Fert's:
Get what I told you to get.
You can use the SeaChem stuff but the cost will be around 100-200$ a month, vs 10$ a month for what I suggested.
It's your/their $. If you want to add water to the dry salts, it's no different.

Flourish and flourish tabs will NOT be enough to supply the needs of the plants. You'll need the fert's I mentioned. The SeaChem stuff is no more difficult to use than the stuff I mention, just add 4 things, 3 of them -2x a week.

An A1 CO2 cylinder is perfect.

As far as plants:
Cabomba grows like wildfire, you can have some if you plan on trimming every week or two.
I'd place somewhere easy to get at and prune.

I'd also highly suggest you consider keeping the number of species low, the tank will look much better.
Be careful on the design and plant types.

Clown pleco's , bull dog, rubber's Peaklotia sp, Ancistrus, bushy nose's etc Farawella, Otto cats all of these are good, stay away from reg/tiger pleco's.
Otto's are wimpy but the ones that do make it live for a long time after the first 3 weeks or so at a LFS.

Concerning the Flourite, Email Doug Hill at SeaChem directly about the size of your tank and they will make an arrangement with you through the LFS for a quantity buy special price.

It should be a good deal, better than anywhere else.

If you go with the 3x3x10 ft size, a dosing routine would look like this:

Sunday: 30-40% water change
Add 2 tablespoons of K2SO4
Add 2 table spoons of KNO3
Add 1/2 teaspoon of KH2PO4
Add 150mls of trace mix

Tues:
2 tablespoons KNO3
1/2 teasp KH2PO4
150 mls of trace

Friday:
2 tablespoons KNO3
1/2 teaspoon KH2PO4
150mls of trace

Repeat on Sunday

Gets to be old hat fast.

Your fish choices are good, but not for Discus, barbs are not a good mix IMO. But Barbs are good for polanted tanks IMO, but they do rip up things like Cabomba, moss, any fuzzy looking plants, this also includes hair algae.

Rosey barbs look nice, chery barbs also. A big school would look neat. Also consider cardinals, maybe 1000 of them + Discus.

Bing Seto is one of the USA's best breeder's and is over in the east bay. Mark Faulkner is the fellow from the Monterey Aquarium and I can have him contact you off list if you wish.

I have a price as well but I'm more the consultant and will be in the bay area off and on till next summer when I'm permenantly back. I'll do set ups for large planted tanks(or small ones) and consulting, but day to day mainteance is always best done by the owners(dosing, Flipping on the UV, water changes etc.). I or Mark etc can do monthly prunings etc so that keeps the cost down.
Generally I try to show folks how to and then let them enjoy it.
In the long run this works bst for all involved and is not difficult.

If you get a chance, take a look at Amano's big Tank, some one here has a link to it somewhere so you can see it on line. Try a search and I'll see if I can hunt down the link.

If you like wood like that or want an open top/or a closed top with neat wood, I have plenty(It's located in Florida though but is available).
Redwood is also a good wood but not as branchy or as dense as the eastern southern cedar.

Email off list for further info.

Some of Mark's 500 gallon Discus tanks(the 250 looks much better IMO)
See here:
www.sfbaaps.com under "gallery" under "Mark".
Tanks this size we both have experience on.
Mark I believe even lives right there in your town.

Mark and I have worked together on projects in the past as well and can take the tank where ever your goal is.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Thanks. I actually wasn't considering barbs and discus, but barbs or discus... the barbs would shred the discus.

I'm not concerned with free radicals impacting the plants, but the fish are another matter...
 
So what/which free radicals are going to cause harm to the fish?

A UV is not going to cause much in the way of free radicals enough to harm the fish, someone is blowing smoke up your.....
to sell you a UV and a carbon post.

Plenty of folks use UV's 24/7 and raise breeders/fry and other fish that would be very sensitive to something like a super oxide radical or others. Free radicals are quite diluted in a large volume of water and would react quickly rendering it benign. Internally, we/fish/critter posses enyzmes to convert free radicals to benign chemical states. Vitamins/trace metals are co factors for many of these enyzmes such as super oxide dimutase which deals with the radical such as this example.

Go elsewhere if someone told you this.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Well you see, my dad mentioned free radicals and what they can do... he's got a Ph.D in Zoology, and worked for NASA and Lockheed Martin for 20-odd years developing life support sytems. Unfortunately, he doesn't always give relevant info- he told me they CAN cause all sorts of problems, but couldn't say for sure if the amount coming off a UV could cause a problem or not... so, I figured I'd be safe and use the carbon. But, if they aren't going to be a problem, I'll skip it...
 
I have degrees in biochem and plant & aquatic bio and have 30 years in this hobby so I too know what I'm talking about.
Precisely fish, algae and plants.

Show me some references on free radical production from UV's on fish growth rates/toxicity tolerances.
Then include something about the plant nutrients/trace metals effect with UV's and chelators.

He's correct that they can cause all sorts of issues, namely internal issues when a cell cannot produce the enzymes to handle these radicals or a pathway is blocked. But does this apply to a planted tank?

Otherwise it's speculation. And it'd be a real dent to all the UV makers in the hobby(fish) if it's true. Ozone users do use carbon post to remove all the O3 before returning it to the tank etc. But I've never heard nor seen anything about UV production of free radical production in a tank that might cause any fish related issues.

If he finds some references, please post them. He's trying to be helpful certainly and playing it safe but consider the sun's UV and the world's water bodies.
In any event, having seen a number of Discus breed in my and other's tanks, I'd expect they were not in too sorry of shape from all the free radicals:)
I don't use UV's anylonger unless doing work with green water and other phytoplankton but have used them for a few years.

You would be in very lonely company using carbon on a planted tank. It is never recommend except prehaps in the first weeks and then as bio media later after it's "spent" and no longer active.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
When it comes to aquaria few people could beat Tom head to head.

If I were doing a project of this magnitude I would definitely hire a consultant. It will cost a few hundred, but they can help you figure out the aquascape and maintenance and that, in my opinion, is very worth the time and expense. It's the difference between a tank that makes you say "cool tank" and "OMG, Wow."
 
Tom; I hope I didn't insult you at all. I suppose I may have come across as a bit irritable...

Anyhow, I can see just from your posts in this thread that you know a great deal about this, so I'm going to revise the setup so it's more in line with your suggestions. I was at the LFS yesterday, and I saw some bottles in their fertilizer/water conditioner aisle, and they were labeled with some of the formulas you mentioned earlier (e.g. KNO3). Were you referring to an actual product that's using the formulas as the name, or were you just referring to the chemicals themselves? I would assume the product in question (wish I'd had time to look at it more closely) contains the substance that it's label has printed on it... So yeah- were you talking about buying the substances in bulk from a scientific/industrial supply company, or were you talking about some kind of aquarium-specific product?
 
You and most folks here get free advice, folks often charge a fair penny for this alone and the amount of cash I've saved you thus far is substantial, not to mention many other aquarist all over creation I've tried to help. Operating cost and ease of long term operation and blending the whole thing together is the key.
But ultimately folks will do what they want, it's their project, their money etc. But if they want advice/set up etc, then they are asking for experience/help. My goal is simple: cheap long term operating cost + a nice healthy planted tank. Simple is good. Less cost and easy to fix.
I am professional in my work/advice, like I said, I do not do this for the money, I have a job and am not groveling for $ to keep an account/get a client. I do not operate that way. I do work with people to finish a project and a goal

Just the bulk sacks o fertilzer down at the farm supply places.
KH2PO4 is often called KEEP. Potash of sulfur= K2SO4.
KNO3 is sold sometimes under stump remover in smaller amounts but they have this also in the 50lb bags, should run about 20-40$. Get the fine grain, not the granular, it dissolved faster. Don't monkey with making stock solutions with water etc.

There, just save you(or the folks/client etc) a few grand in operating cost per year. Contancting SeaChem for flourite will save you some $ as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Question about the peat... I picked up some the other day because I'm in the process of tearing down my 10g and I figured I'd try your suggestion. I bought both the granular and the fibrous fluval stuff, since that's all the LFS had. The granular stuff is "highly concentrated" and they say that you should "monitor your pH on a regular basis when using it". What kind of effect on the pH will the peat have? I know it'll bring it down, but how low? The reason I ask is I've got dwarf and celebes rainbowfish that I'm keeping in there, and they prefer hard water with a pH of 7.5+, and the celebes especially are sensitive to soft, acid water... which, of course, is exactly what the peat does to the water...
 
I use the garden Scott's brand, about 2$ for a 10lb+ bag. Ground peat.

I add about a handful per sq ft to the bottom layer, so about a handful is all you'd add to a 10 gal. Peat will soften the water, but it does not keep doing this forever and you are adding only a small amount relative to the tank volume and you are also placing it where there is the lowest water flow passing by.

50% weekly water changes also prevent it from doing much, til the next week's changes takes place adding the hardness back.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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