I can't think of simple circulation setup which would get the excess Daphnia back to the main tank where the shrimp are to be without chewing them up.
How to tell a shrimp is healthy?
- Thread starter goldfish freak
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RTR, what about if I use a HOB refugium? Would using one of these chew up the daphnia as well. I have found a couple of places that make them which are somewhat close by. What do think of these two designs:http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20758&item=2326680354#ebayphotohosting and: http://www.aquaria.ca/Shop/Images/CustomAcrylic/refugium.gif They seem quite similar.
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The designs are similar, but you need power intake and passive return (otherwise the pump pulverizes the Daphnia). You do not need or want large flows, and you do want a 24/7 light, even if it is just the lowest wattage available screw-in self-ballasted fluorescent.
If you are willing to go that much for a HOB refugium, do some searches and get the largest you can for the money. You do not need real PC lighting - you are not growing macroalgae for a reef, just keeping Daphnia in the water column and feeding.
So, look for largest volume available on a cost/volume basis, ability to light at low level, powered water input and passive return. You also want to consider the ability to mask/screen the light from your view, depending in part on how obtrusive it will be to you and whether or not it will bleed into the dispaly tank.
If you are willing to go that much for a HOB refugium, do some searches and get the largest you can for the money. You do not need real PC lighting - you are not growing macroalgae for a reef, just keeping Daphnia in the water column and feeding.
So, look for largest volume available on a cost/volume basis, ability to light at low level, powered water input and passive return. You also want to consider the ability to mask/screen the light from your view, depending in part on how obtrusive it will be to you and whether or not it will bleed into the dispaly tank.
I am not sure how I would provide a power intake and passive return.
I was thinking maybe if I attached a pump which sits in the tank to one end of the piping of the refugium(I would guess the smaller end) it would pump water into the refugium and overflow into the tank via the other end of piping. It looks like this would work. Am I right? I was thinking about using a small pump suctioned to the floor of the tank to pump the water up. The tank is 24" tall. What rate of gallons per hour should I aim for? Would a pump that has an adjustable flow of 21-106 gph at a maximum head of 29" work well for a refugium that holds either 2.1 or 3.3 gallons of water? Would a refugium that hold this little water work well for me?
I have a choice between buying a refugium that measures 19"x13"x2" that holds 2.1 gallons and will fit on the back of my 120 gallon tank in it's current position or one that measures 18"x12"x4" that hold 3.7 gallons, that will only fit on the back of my tank if I move it forward. I only have 2 inches of clearance behind my tank and would prefer not to move it in order to accommodate the wider refugium. Do you think the thinner refugium would be sufficient to raise Daphnia, and would it matter if it was Daphnia Pulex or Daphnia Magna?
Thanks again.
I was thinking maybe if I attached a pump which sits in the tank to one end of the piping of the refugium(I would guess the smaller end) it would pump water into the refugium and overflow into the tank via the other end of piping. It looks like this would work. Am I right? I was thinking about using a small pump suctioned to the floor of the tank to pump the water up. The tank is 24" tall. What rate of gallons per hour should I aim for? Would a pump that has an adjustable flow of 21-106 gph at a maximum head of 29" work well for a refugium that holds either 2.1 or 3.3 gallons of water? Would a refugium that hold this little water work well for me?
I have a choice between buying a refugium that measures 19"x13"x2" that holds 2.1 gallons and will fit on the back of my 120 gallon tank in it's current position or one that measures 18"x12"x4" that hold 3.7 gallons, that will only fit on the back of my tank if I move it forward. I only have 2 inches of clearance behind my tank and would prefer not to move it in order to accommodate the wider refugium. Do you think the thinner refugium would be sufficient to raise Daphnia, and would it matter if it was Daphnia Pulex or Daphnia Magna?
Thanks again.
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I would not move a large tank if I could possibly avoid it.
There are refugia marketed with powered in and passive out, but I don't remember who makes or markets it, those were short-term bookmarks and cleared when I decidied I was happier with using tanks.
The hazard to power in and passive out is overflow danger if the return is blocked or loses siphon. If I set such with the pump low in the display, I would have a float switch in the refugium (lower visibility, less obtrusive) or in the main tank (safest, but visible and not attractive) to shut down if the refugium were in danger of overflow, or if the display were lower than normal in water depth (depending on float placement).
I'm not certain that either of those mentioned is really large enough to make a significant impression on the green water issue.
Can we jump back to the original issue of green water a minute? Do you have a full-size hood and what is above your tank? What room is it in? The reason I ask is that emerse plants are more effective at removing nutrients from water than submerse, or than Daphnia at eating the resulting green water (suspended algae) and then the shrimp at eating Daphnia (although they can eat a lot). If there is space atop your tank, it is easy to set a tanktop W/D as a hydroponic plant tray, planted with Spathyphyllum (sp?) which would be more likely to alleviate the problem than all these too-small secondary processes - that would at least attack the primary issue. The Aquarium Products TT W/D that I used this way is about 5 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 48", only 36 of which is actually usable for growing plants. But I promise that is a huge mass of emerse plant and can absorb a lot of nutrient. If not, if there is space or possibility of a shelf above the tank, a balcony-type planter box could be rigged to serve the same function. The direct on the tank setup only requires a very small pump. Think about it.
A properly sized UV would kill the green water, but return all the nutrients to the tank - not as desirable as removing them.
There are refugia marketed with powered in and passive out, but I don't remember who makes or markets it, those were short-term bookmarks and cleared when I decidied I was happier with using tanks.
The hazard to power in and passive out is overflow danger if the return is blocked or loses siphon. If I set such with the pump low in the display, I would have a float switch in the refugium (lower visibility, less obtrusive) or in the main tank (safest, but visible and not attractive) to shut down if the refugium were in danger of overflow, or if the display were lower than normal in water depth (depending on float placement).
I'm not certain that either of those mentioned is really large enough to make a significant impression on the green water issue.
Can we jump back to the original issue of green water a minute? Do you have a full-size hood and what is above your tank? What room is it in? The reason I ask is that emerse plants are more effective at removing nutrients from water than submerse, or than Daphnia at eating the resulting green water (suspended algae) and then the shrimp at eating Daphnia (although they can eat a lot). If there is space atop your tank, it is easy to set a tanktop W/D as a hydroponic plant tray, planted with Spathyphyllum (sp?) which would be more likely to alleviate the problem than all these too-small secondary processes - that would at least attack the primary issue. The Aquarium Products TT W/D that I used this way is about 5 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 48", only 36 of which is actually usable for growing plants. But I promise that is a huge mass of emerse plant and can absorb a lot of nutrient. If not, if there is space or possibility of a shelf above the tank, a balcony-type planter box could be rigged to serve the same function. The direct on the tank setup only requires a very small pump. Think about it.
A properly sized UV would kill the green water, but return all the nutrients to the tank - not as desirable as removing them.
Actually I am more interested in breeding and raising Daphina for my fancy goldfish to eat than to clear my green water. Any clearing of green water that is performed by them would just be an added benefit. I figured that I could provide my goldfish with a good source of live food and clear my green water at the same time.
The addition of wood shrimp to the tank would hopefully aid in eliminating the green water as well. Basically I wanted to breed the daphnia and keep the wood shrimp to clear the green water and use the daphnia to feed my fancy goldfish and wood shrimp.
When the water does eventually clear, my plan would be to feed the daphnia to keep them going and to supplement the diest of the wood shrimp with additional food.
I have a wood canopy over my tank, so i don't think there is room to grow emerse plants, but thanks for the idea.
At present my fancy goldfish tank with the green water has no plants in it. I will be planting it soon with Java fern and a couple of Anubias species, and maybe some floating hornwort.
I was thinking that the addition of live plants(especially the hornwort) would suck alot of the nutrients out of the water that the algae in the needs to survive, thus reducing the amount of green water. and the Daphnia and wood shrimp would take care of what remained.
Would my idea with the pump attached to the refugium work if I installed the float switch? How would I go about installing the float switch? Is it a simple procedure?
The addition of wood shrimp to the tank would hopefully aid in eliminating the green water as well. Basically I wanted to breed the daphnia and keep the wood shrimp to clear the green water and use the daphnia to feed my fancy goldfish and wood shrimp.
When the water does eventually clear, my plan would be to feed the daphnia to keep them going and to supplement the diest of the wood shrimp with additional food.
I have a wood canopy over my tank, so i don't think there is room to grow emerse plants, but thanks for the idea.
At present my fancy goldfish tank with the green water has no plants in it. I will be planting it soon with Java fern and a couple of Anubias species, and maybe some floating hornwort.
I was thinking that the addition of live plants(especially the hornwort) would suck alot of the nutrients out of the water that the algae in the needs to survive, thus reducing the amount of green water. and the Daphnia and wood shrimp would take care of what remained.
Would my idea with the pump attached to the refugium work if I installed the float switch? How would I go about installing the float switch? Is it a simple procedure?
Float switches are quite simple devices, effectively an electronic version of a toilet tank float and valve, just smaller. I have not used in several years, but the reefers do regularly, so the on-line merchants should have a selection.
Rearing Daphnia doesn't require much beyond green water. If you go to
http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/
You can search for Daphnia and get a wide selection of handling techniques. separate setups (not refugium) will provide much better production and control. having two production tanks operating is good insurance against a crash.
Hornwort is a super nutrient sponge provided the goldfish don't tear it up - I have not tried them together. Water sprite is another, but it is so soft I suspect it would be salad bar.
A couple of gallons vs. 120 is not going to provide any significant effect, but yes, it would operate, and more safely with a float switch.
If the goldfish will actively compete with the shrimp fo the Daphnia,the shrimp will lose.
Rearing Daphnia doesn't require much beyond green water. If you go to
http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/
You can search for Daphnia and get a wide selection of handling techniques. separate setups (not refugium) will provide much better production and control. having two production tanks operating is good insurance against a crash.
Hornwort is a super nutrient sponge provided the goldfish don't tear it up - I have not tried them together. Water sprite is another, but it is so soft I suspect it would be salad bar.
A couple of gallons vs. 120 is not going to provide any significant effect, but yes, it would operate, and more safely with a float switch.
If the goldfish will actively compete with the shrimp fo the Daphnia,the shrimp will lose.
