i cant take the wait any longer

No prob my pleasure (also I only got in the game late you were well on track thanks to the good folks already in the thread).

How quickly nitrates rise is completely depending on how many fish you have in the tank. Again, during this time you learn how your tank is coping with the present bioload etc. For you, I would test every couple of days for nitrate, every day for ammonia, nitrite (until you get 0 on the latter two for a couple of days). Then, every time you add stock (never adding more than about half of the current bioload at any one time - say every couple of weeks) you test daily for nitrates for a few days, just to check on how this will affect your water change schedule etc. Everything will catch up (more bacteria develop to consume the additional food source) and then you are again cycled - this catching up is very quick after adding new stock. Leave a couple of weeks between additions to be sure.
 
pH in and of itself is not very important, in general, but it is a very good indicator that other things are in too large quantities so do your water changes (WCs) always.

There are two very important "rules" in this Hobby that just about everyone violates.

1. Do frequent WCs, regardless.

2. Unplug all electrical devices before touching a tank. A switch can be helpfull.

GFIs or GFCIs are actually nice on any circuit, especially ones that
deal with water. GFIs can be irritating but better irritated than
dead over a Hobby that is supposed to be fun.
 
Coler said:
No prob my pleasure (also I only got in the game late you were well on track thanks to the good folks already in the thread).

How quickly nitrates rise is completely depending on how many fish you have in the tank. Again, during this time you learn how your tank is coping with the present bioload etc. For you, I would test every couple of days for nitrate, every day for ammonia, nitrite (until you get 0 on the latter two for a couple of days). Then, every time you add stock (never adding more than about half of the current bioload at any one time - say every couple of weeks) you test daily for nitrates for a few days, just to check on how this will affect your water change schedule etc. Everything will catch up (more bacteria develop to consume the additional food source) and then you are again cycled - this catching up is very quick after adding new stock. Leave a couple of weeks between additions to be sure.
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so coler,
if i'm not quite at .25ppm ammonia, but also, i'm not 0, that's actually a pretty good place to be for me at this particular moment... so i would think. if tomorrow i come home from work and i'm at a definite 0 on ammonia and nitrite, that means my system is working and capable of handling my current (small) stock (because it's between 0 and .25 now). therefore i would add a FEW fish, probably get ammonia & nitrite readings, do water changes to keep them under .25 and wait until my nitrates start keeping the ammonia/nitrites at 0 before i can go add a FEW more.. and continue that process until i'm stocked?
 
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^ pretty much.

You want to see 0 ammonia & nitrite for a week of testing though before you consider the tank cycled for its currrent bioload and begin to increase stock.

A rule which always applies is water change whenever you see ammonia or nitrite at .25 ppm. Another is regular water change to maintain nitrates below 40ppm (I prefer 20). These apply whether cycling or not.
 
Coler said:
^ pretty much.

You want to see 0 ammonia & nitrite for a week of testing though before you consider the tank cycled for its currrent bioload and begin to increase stock.

A rule which always applies is water change whenever you see ammonia or nitrite at .25 ppm. Another is regular water change to maintain nitrates below 40ppm (I prefer 20). These apply whether cycling or not.
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thanks coler, I can honestly say I fully understand now. one should still do a weekly water change even if all params are ok. right?
 
Probably. You'll want to do a water change to keep nitrate under 20 (ideally, although fish are ok up to 30-40), and the amount of time it takes to build to this level is dependent on your bio load. So let's say your tank cycles with your current stock, since you are stocked lightly it may take 2 weeks for nitrate to climb to 20. When you start adding fish and eventually reach your full stock list, you'll probably find that it takes about a week to reach these levels (this is just for illustration purposes, you'll still have to test your water). Another important thing to remember is that you're not just removing nitrate through water changes, but also dissolved organic compounds, which can also have an impact on fish health, growth, etc. So IMO, weekly water changes are good even if your nitrate test says you are under 20. I change 50% every time I do a water change. :)
 
severum mama said:
Probably. You'll want to do a water change to keep nitrate under 20 (ideally, although fish are ok up to 30-40), and the amount of time it takes to build to this level is dependent on your bio load. So let's say your tank cycles with your current stock, since you are stocked lightly it may take 2 weeks for nitrate to climb to 20. When you start adding fish and eventually reach your full stock list, you'll probably find that it takes about a week to reach these levels (this is just for illustration purposes, you'll still have to test your water). Another important thing to remember is that you're not just removing nitrate through water changes, but also dissolved organic compounds, which can also have an impact on fish health, growth, etc. So IMO, weekly water changes are good even if your nitrate test says you are under 20. I change 50% every time I do a water change. :)
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thanks for the very useful info, mama. let me ask (beg) you all a question. i'm gonna test my water after work (about 2 hrs to go) and expect to see it the same. if I get my ammonia/nitrites to 0, can I reward myself by trading in a couple of my black skirts for an angel? I wouldn't be really adding fish in this sense... i'd assume 1 angel's bioload is about the same as 2 black skirts.... whadda ya think?
 
Why subject any additional fish to the torture of fishy cycling? You need to be patient and let the cycle establish itself before adding anything new or swapping out anything..

What I've read of this thread is a classic example of why fishless cycling is how it should be done..
 
An angel is much less likely to do well in a new tank than black skirts. I wouldn't risk it.
 
severum mama said:
An angel is much less likely to do well in a new tank than black skirts. I wouldn't risk it.
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ok ok. in that case, my test results are pretty much the same as they were at 10:00 pm last night.

ammonia - now .25 (water change after this post)
nitrites - 0
pH - 6.2
nitrates - somewhere between 0 and 5.0

dear god, i'll continue with these fish. hopefully merlin will break into my apt tonight and i'll wake up tomorrow with 0 ammonia/nitrites and like 20ppm nitrates. that would be great.

edit* will feeding twice a day benefit me in any way? get them to create waste more often? or can i at least buy a few more zebras? truth is, i just want to buy more fish. wouldn't a bigger bioload make my nitrates stronger?
 
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