I don't understand why they're dying!
- Thread starter captmicha
- Start date
osmocote is a very slow release unless the capsules are crushed, so I wouldn't think that it is the issue unless there is just a ton of it in there.
And flourish is just a micromix, it doesn't kill fish, if it did then there would be more stories about it doing so since so many people use it.
And flourish is just a micromix, it doesn't kill fish, if it did then there would be more stories about it doing so since so many people use it.
Why don't people listen and why do they put words in my mouth??? My tank is not over stocked and it is sufficiently filtrated. Even adult guppies wouldn't be over stocked but all of the guppies besides two aren't even full grown yet. I never said that I had no filter going. I have a filter AND plants. I also NEVER said just one plant!! I've also had this tank up and running, WITH established filter media, for months now. What does my substrate matter???? I don't use anything to treat my water before adding it to the tanks and after 1,535 posts and being a fish keeping member since 2006, I really don't think that I'd be a newbie adding public water right into my tanks or every tank would be poisoned and I clearly haven't been posting that on a frequent basis. And I said that my water is 6.8 out of tap so it's pretty safe to guess that that's what my other tanks test at unless I alter them!
THANK YOU platytudes!
I did recently clean my filter media but it was by squeezing it out under water in a bucket of used aquarium water. The same way that I always clean all other filter's medias and have been doing for at least a decade. So it's not like it should be acting like a brand new spanking filter here. But if I some how wiped out the bacteria colonies, which seems totally unlikely but my tank is acting like it, why didn't this happen with any of my other filters and tanks? I have six other tanks all treated the same and doing completely fine! It's a Whisper hob rated for this size tank. I initally threw out the filter media that came with it and I use filter floss and scrubbies, just like with all my other filters with media compartments.
It's not really related but I just thought that I'd mention that I don't believe in fish in cycling and I would never do it.
Um, so it sounds like my established filter media lost it's bacteria colonies. How could this be???? Once again, I cleaned ALL my other filters in the same water in the same way and I am having no problems with my other 6 tanks. I even used twice the amount of Osmocote Complete in my other 10 gallon tank which is more stocked, with two pots of plants.
I took the plants out of the male guppy tank because it scared me and I'll have to retest without them in there, even though I already said that it sounds like the filter's media lost the colonies. I'll also grab another tank's scrubbies and put them in the male guppie's filter, after the water tests.
The only other variable that I can think of is all the recent power outages but again, look at all my other tanks with no problems. Hmmm.... Maybe this one tank's filter media was able to dry out completely when the others haven't... But shouldn't the dormant bacteria have kicked back in once it got wet again?
THANK YOU platytudes!
I did recently clean my filter media but it was by squeezing it out under water in a bucket of used aquarium water. The same way that I always clean all other filter's medias and have been doing for at least a decade. So it's not like it should be acting like a brand new spanking filter here. But if I some how wiped out the bacteria colonies, which seems totally unlikely but my tank is acting like it, why didn't this happen with any of my other filters and tanks? I have six other tanks all treated the same and doing completely fine! It's a Whisper hob rated for this size tank. I initally threw out the filter media that came with it and I use filter floss and scrubbies, just like with all my other filters with media compartments.
It's not really related but I just thought that I'd mention that I don't believe in fish in cycling and I would never do it.
Um, so it sounds like my established filter media lost it's bacteria colonies. How could this be???? Once again, I cleaned ALL my other filters in the same water in the same way and I am having no problems with my other 6 tanks. I even used twice the amount of Osmocote Complete in my other 10 gallon tank which is more stocked, with two pots of plants.
I took the plants out of the male guppy tank because it scared me and I'll have to retest without them in there, even though I already said that it sounds like the filter's media lost the colonies. I'll also grab another tank's scrubbies and put them in the male guppie's filter, after the water tests.
The only other variable that I can think of is all the recent power outages but again, look at all my other tanks with no problems. Hmmm.... Maybe this one tank's filter media was able to dry out completely when the others haven't... But shouldn't the dormant bacteria have kicked back in once it got wet again?
nobody is blaming you, i guess
we're just asking
and btw, substrate does matter, sort of, as it could be whatever, but some are for cichlids(higher pH), and the others for more delicate(lower pH).
idk, but did anything, like a spray/cleaner/disinfectant or something of that sort get in the tank
especially as anti-bacterial wipes kill bacteria, and so do sprays, so i would check to see if that is what happened
we're just asking
and btw, substrate does matter, sort of, as it could be whatever, but some are for cichlids(higher pH), and the others for more delicate(lower pH).
idk, but did anything, like a spray/cleaner/disinfectant or something of that sort get in the tank
especially as anti-bacterial wipes kill bacteria, and so do sprays, so i would check to see if that is what happened
No, if the media dried out the bacteria colony died off. You would then be starting from scratch.
it's not the osmocote... period... end of story.
your tank is NEVER going to test at the same ph as your tap unless you're constantly turning over your tank with new water from your tap.
your substrate absolutely matters if it contains that much ammo.
dry media is dead bacteria... period.
you have posted some alarming information here whether you like to admit it or not.
are the pots of your potted plants shoved into your tank substrate? if so, you'd benefit by very large water changes when you remove them, move them or alter them in any way.
what's the substrate in that pot?
was it stirred up when you placed the osmocote?
when you saw dead anything in your tank, did you do massive water changes just in case?
when you read .5ppm ammo, did you do several massive water changes until your ammo read at or very near 0 ppm?
are your plants flourishing, growing, healthy, green, alive and beautiful or do they seem to be holding their ground barely or losing ground?
what is in your tank that makes your ph rise to 8.0 in your tank from 6.8 in your tap? are you letting your tap water off gas before testing the ph?
did you even consider testing your tap water for ammonia too?
you need to be a little more forthcoming when asking for advice and quit being so defensive. you are the only person posting in this thread that could have possibly killed your fish. everyone else is just trying to help. you have to take that into consideration and chill out a little... maybe even consider answering those seemingly ridiculous questions. we know it's frustrating when things don't go your way... however... it can be just as frustrating when you refuse for things to go our way while we attempt to help solving your problems. it's not going to help you any to continue such negativity whether you think people are being unjust or not. just answer the questions, accept that you're getting answers at all, take them for what they're worth and do whatever you can with what you get.
for now, i suggest you do a couple large water changes just for g/p's. honestly, i suspect your problem may be a combination of stirring up your substrate and possibly your might-be-dry media being completely useless as bio media until the colonies re-establish. your ph issue, i would suspect either has something to do with you not understanding how to get an accurate reading out of your tap water and/or something in your tank that's leaching. you should definitely look into both to eliminate them as possible issues.
your tank is NEVER going to test at the same ph as your tap unless you're constantly turning over your tank with new water from your tap.
your substrate absolutely matters if it contains that much ammo.
dry media is dead bacteria... period.
you have posted some alarming information here whether you like to admit it or not.
are the pots of your potted plants shoved into your tank substrate? if so, you'd benefit by very large water changes when you remove them, move them or alter them in any way.
what's the substrate in that pot?
was it stirred up when you placed the osmocote?
when you saw dead anything in your tank, did you do massive water changes just in case?
when you read .5ppm ammo, did you do several massive water changes until your ammo read at or very near 0 ppm?
are your plants flourishing, growing, healthy, green, alive and beautiful or do they seem to be holding their ground barely or losing ground?
what is in your tank that makes your ph rise to 8.0 in your tank from 6.8 in your tap? are you letting your tap water off gas before testing the ph?
did you even consider testing your tap water for ammonia too?
you need to be a little more forthcoming when asking for advice and quit being so defensive. you are the only person posting in this thread that could have possibly killed your fish. everyone else is just trying to help. you have to take that into consideration and chill out a little... maybe even consider answering those seemingly ridiculous questions. we know it's frustrating when things don't go your way... however... it can be just as frustrating when you refuse for things to go our way while we attempt to help solving your problems. it's not going to help you any to continue such negativity whether you think people are being unjust or not. just answer the questions, accept that you're getting answers at all, take them for what they're worth and do whatever you can with what you get.
for now, i suggest you do a couple large water changes just for g/p's. honestly, i suspect your problem may be a combination of stirring up your substrate and possibly your might-be-dry media being completely useless as bio media until the colonies re-establish. your ph issue, i would suspect either has something to do with you not understanding how to get an accurate reading out of your tap water and/or something in your tank that's leaching. you should definitely look into both to eliminate them as possible issues.
The way to find answers is to get more information and rule out different possibilities. Most people don't know each other here well enough to assume that they know all the basics. Even if they do, it's always good to bring it back up just to make sure someone didn't forget or skip over one of the basics, it happens.
Substrate can play a large role on tank ph, so it does matter.
If you really want help you might want to check your tone.
p.s. fish-in cycling can be done safely and effectively, it just takes an understanding of the nitrogen cycle and it's relationship to fish to do it well.
Substrate can play a large role on tank ph, so it does matter.
If you really want help you might want to check your tone.
p.s. fish-in cycling can be done safely and effectively, it just takes an understanding of the nitrogen cycle and it's relationship to fish to do it well.
+1, nobody is blaming u, but telling u that yes, parts that u think don't matter actually do, pretty much everything kind of matters in a tank if soemthing is wrong, heaters, filters, lights, wires(cut, etc.), media, substrate, water source, etc.
i suggest answering the questions we have been asking instead of thinking them being irrelevant, the # of posts doesn't make u more experienced nor the # of years u have been keeping fish.
i suggest answering the questions we have been asking instead of thinking them being irrelevant, the # of posts doesn't make u more experienced nor the # of years u have been keeping fish.
I was really tired when I wrote that. Of course, now I realize that substrate matters. I have to apologize AGAIN for a rude reply when people were just trying to help. It's not an excuse but my sleep problems are really getting to me and on top of that, a new RX is making me even more irritable. I won't even mention my family...! I need to put a disclaimer before I type anything... Again, it's not an excuse but still.
It's pool filter sand and some green and yellow gravel with some white rocks that I found at a thrift store. Maybe not the best choice... I tested my water again last night after doing almost a 100% water change the previous night (I know I should have done another water change last night but read on for my reason), pH has gone down but is still higher than it should be at 7.4. I was wrong about my well water's pH, my brand spanking new test kits reads it at an even more acidic, I'm guessing 6.2 because the color is in between 6.0 and 6.4. My old kit results were off, which is why I thought it was 6.8. I wish it was 6.8...
I'm going to buy new substrate for all my tanks this week so if it's the substrate causing the pH weirdness then that problem will be remedied soon. I'm only using the thrift store mix in one of my other tanks and it's my snail tank with really high pH and my GH kit wasn't reading results so I had to send it back and I'm waiting for the replacement.
I tested the ammonia again and it went down and is at .25 ppm. I do admit to over feeding once in a while (Jewish mother syndrome) but I've gotten really good about it. I take out how much I WANT to feed, then I cut that into 1/4 and feed the 1/4! I do also use some home made fish foods but they don't seem to be causing more pollution than any commercial feeds that I've purchased in the past. I haven't been using frozen foods or live recently.
There are no more dead or sick looking fish. The one that I thought I was going to lose recovered. Everybody's color looks good, including no inflamed gill slits.
I didn't add more Prime because I did that when I did the water change (although you do need to use it every day for water problems, right?) but I did switch out some of the filter media with that from a different tank. If you saw the scrubbie that was in the problem 10 gallon, it looked like your normal, bacteria laden scrubbie with gunk and all. I'm going to test the water today, then do a water change and then test the water tomorrow to see if the filter media switch helped the problem. Then I may put the plants back in and test the water a few times.
So after learning that apparently, having the media drying out will kill the bacteria colonies, this whole thing makes sense. Bio-load from the fish + bio-load from uneaten food + extra nutrients from fertilizers - filter's ability to process it = death. Maybe it was the Osmocote building up that clinched it. I think some got exposed to the water column because of the froth on top of the tank.
Um, lesson learned. I'm not exactly dealing with a full deck of cards here. I should have known this and probably knew this about the bacteria at one point but forgot it like so many other things. My other filters are either submersed or had water left in the bottom while this particular filter either drained completely or only had such a small amount of water that it dried up shortly. So the next time there are any prolonged power outages, and there will be, I'll take my filter media out and stick them in sandwich bags or something.
I don't know if it counts since the tank's substrate isn't even an inch deep. The pot is a 4" plastic pot with Shult's Aqua Soil filled to the brim. It wasn't stirred up when I placed the Osmocote. I easily just inserted it towards the middle depth of the pot.
I have no idea!!! If I knew then I wouldn't have been so puzzled and concerned about it when I posted about it. I'm not having that problem in any of my other tanks. And the pH in my other tanks, except this one and my snail tank are reading the same as my tap water, 6.2ish. Yes, I let the tap water sit a while before testing it.
It's pool filter sand and some green and yellow gravel with some white rocks that I found at a thrift store. Maybe not the best choice... I tested my water again last night after doing almost a 100% water change the previous night (I know I should have done another water change last night but read on for my reason), pH has gone down but is still higher than it should be at 7.4. I was wrong about my well water's pH, my brand spanking new test kits reads it at an even more acidic, I'm guessing 6.2 because the color is in between 6.0 and 6.4. My old kit results were off, which is why I thought it was 6.8. I wish it was 6.8...
I'm going to buy new substrate for all my tanks this week so if it's the substrate causing the pH weirdness then that problem will be remedied soon. I'm only using the thrift store mix in one of my other tanks and it's my snail tank with really high pH and my GH kit wasn't reading results so I had to send it back and I'm waiting for the replacement.
I tested the ammonia again and it went down and is at .25 ppm. I do admit to over feeding once in a while (Jewish mother syndrome) but I've gotten really good about it. I take out how much I WANT to feed, then I cut that into 1/4 and feed the 1/4! I do also use some home made fish foods but they don't seem to be causing more pollution than any commercial feeds that I've purchased in the past. I haven't been using frozen foods or live recently.
There are no more dead or sick looking fish. The one that I thought I was going to lose recovered. Everybody's color looks good, including no inflamed gill slits.
I didn't add more Prime because I did that when I did the water change (although you do need to use it every day for water problems, right?) but I did switch out some of the filter media with that from a different tank. If you saw the scrubbie that was in the problem 10 gallon, it looked like your normal, bacteria laden scrubbie with gunk and all. I'm going to test the water today, then do a water change and then test the water tomorrow to see if the filter media switch helped the problem. Then I may put the plants back in and test the water a few times.
So after learning that apparently, having the media drying out will kill the bacteria colonies, this whole thing makes sense. Bio-load from the fish + bio-load from uneaten food + extra nutrients from fertilizers - filter's ability to process it = death. Maybe it was the Osmocote building up that clinched it. I think some got exposed to the water column because of the froth on top of the tank.
Um, lesson learned. I'm not exactly dealing with a full deck of cards here. I should have known this and probably knew this about the bacteria at one point but forgot it like so many other things. My other filters are either submersed or had water left in the bottom while this particular filter either drained completely or only had such a small amount of water that it dried up shortly. So the next time there are any prolonged power outages, and there will be, I'll take my filter media out and stick them in sandwich bags or something.
I don't know if it counts since the tank's substrate isn't even an inch deep. The pot is a 4" plastic pot with Shult's Aqua Soil filled to the brim. It wasn't stirred up when I placed the Osmocote. I easily just inserted it towards the middle depth of the pot.
Yes, I always do. Although, not always at once if there's old tank syndrome.
Yes, they're doing quite well, even w/o CO2 or supplemental lighting. They're even staying potted with no problems with no weights.
I have no idea!!! If I knew then I wouldn't have been so puzzled and concerned about it when I posted about it. I'm not having that problem in any of my other tanks. And the pH in my other tanks, except this one and my snail tank are reading the same as my tap water, 6.2ish. Yes, I let the tap water sit a while before testing it.
Yes. There's none. I also tested for chlorine and all kinds of other things. I have really pure well water. Clean as a whistle.
This much spazzing out is out of character for you, but I've noticed your tone throughout your threads consistently tends to rub people the wrong way. Even when we are feeling negative emotions, as adults we are expected to be somewhat stoic and not be so melodramatic. I got my fill of that in my teenage years anyway
It's true what Dun has said, the answers you get are the answers you get. I've been dissatisfied too, sometimes (haven't we all?) when none of the answers were very helpful, but you have to remember two things: 1) Most people are just trying to help when they suggest possible causes, and 2) When I post questions, I expect to be asked more questions. It's just how it goes...if I don't want to answer them - because I feel the answer is irrelevant, or too time consuming, or whatever - I just avoid them.
Just saying...maybe read it out loud before you post it? Just by doing that, I see what I think happened with Jpappy's post, he read the "The tank is filtrated, has an air pump and the temp is room temperature." as "The tank has an airstone [or similar] and no heater." If you'd said "The tank has a Whisper 10i/AquaClear Mini, etc." this would have made the part about the filtration stand out more. Saying the tank has an air pump also doesn't explain much...what does the air pump power? A sponge filter, or...?
Even I thought you only had one plant in the tank, because you don't say anywhere that the tank is planted, you just said "I have a single pot in the tank with plants and I put a small capsule of Osmocote Complete in the substrate in the pot."
Anyway, all I'm saying is, being a little more descriptive would help. Saying what filter you have, and roughly percentage of the water change, would help.
I'm not sure, but I bet whoever asked you about the substrate was wondering if you had crushed coral or something else bumping up the pH.
So...now that that's cleared up, I think the power outages and the recent cleaning did compromise the filter bacteria. I notice during extended power outages that my 10 gallon tanks tend to get a little cloudy, whereas my bigger tanks (20 gallons and up) seem unaffected. Just the more stable nature of the larger tanks, I guess.
Feed little and double dose Prime, maybe add some filter squeezings from a healthy tank to speed up the reestablishment of the filter...would be my advice. .5 ppm of ammonia is kind of a lot, it's twice as toxic as .25 ppm obviously, and that can be quite toxic...it likely killed the loaches in PlecoLuvrs tank, for example (recent thread about Seachem Clarity)
Edit: Just now reading your post, which you posted while I was still typing. Again, I do hope you get some sleep...Melatonin works well for me, I imagine you've already tried it however.
It's true what Dun has said, the answers you get are the answers you get. I've been dissatisfied too, sometimes (haven't we all?) when none of the answers were very helpful, but you have to remember two things: 1) Most people are just trying to help when they suggest possible causes, and 2) When I post questions, I expect to be asked more questions. It's just how it goes...if I don't want to answer them - because I feel the answer is irrelevant, or too time consuming, or whatever - I just avoid them.
Just saying...maybe read it out loud before you post it? Just by doing that, I see what I think happened with Jpappy's post, he read the "The tank is filtrated, has an air pump and the temp is room temperature." as "The tank has an airstone [or similar] and no heater." If you'd said "The tank has a Whisper 10i/AquaClear Mini, etc." this would have made the part about the filtration stand out more. Saying the tank has an air pump also doesn't explain much...what does the air pump power? A sponge filter, or...?
Even I thought you only had one plant in the tank, because you don't say anywhere that the tank is planted, you just said "I have a single pot in the tank with plants and I put a small capsule of Osmocote Complete in the substrate in the pot."
Anyway, all I'm saying is, being a little more descriptive would help. Saying what filter you have, and roughly percentage of the water change, would help.
I'm not sure, but I bet whoever asked you about the substrate was wondering if you had crushed coral or something else bumping up the pH.
So...now that that's cleared up, I think the power outages and the recent cleaning did compromise the filter bacteria. I notice during extended power outages that my 10 gallon tanks tend to get a little cloudy, whereas my bigger tanks (20 gallons and up) seem unaffected. Just the more stable nature of the larger tanks, I guess.
Feed little and double dose Prime, maybe add some filter squeezings from a healthy tank to speed up the reestablishment of the filter...would be my advice. .5 ppm of ammonia is kind of a lot, it's twice as toxic as .25 ppm obviously, and that can be quite toxic...it likely killed the loaches in PlecoLuvrs tank, for example (recent thread about Seachem Clarity)
Edit: Just now reading your post, which you posted while I was still typing. Again, I do hope you get some sleep...Melatonin works well for me, I imagine you've already tried it however.
