I need help ending a debate on water changes!

How often do you do water changes?

  • More than once per week

    Votes: 32 13.1%
  • Once per week

    Votes: 130 53.1%
  • Bi-weekly

    Votes: 59 24.1%
  • Once per month

    Votes: 21 8.6%
  • Less than once per month

    Votes: 8 3.3%
  • And how much at once? 10-20%

    Votes: 35 14.3%
  • 20-30%

    Votes: 49 20.0%
  • 30-50%

    Votes: 53 21.6%

  • Total voters
    245
I water change like crazy. (Can you use "water change" as a verb, cause I just did :) ) I have a stingray, so I change 50% 2-3 times a week. I use dechlor in the tank and try to match the temp as close as possible. I have never had any problems with my fish due to tap water. Speaking of.... I'm off to do a water change right now!
PS. I find that a python was the best buy I could make. Changing 40 gallons of water with a bucket just doesn't get done, especially multiple times a week. With the python, I just stick it in the tank, get it started, and watch some tv. What else could a lazy guy like me want??
 
any one who sells a fish should recommend this website

I believe in water changes. My fish always look happier after a water change. Especially at the beginning when I made feeding mistakes, and saw lots of waste. Amonia probs, high nitrites, dirty substrate etc. Then I had a white bacteria bloom. Water changed even up to 50% every 2nd. day for a week. Never lost a fish all the while. Matched the water temp using my wrist, like you do a baby bottle lol, to the tank water. I kept it at a constant 76 degrees farenheight. I didn't know what the heck I was doing, but I never lost one except at th beginning to an amonia spike cause I didn't know better to change water until I read abou cycling right here.

All petshops should recommend Aquarium Central Forums, to anyone who buys a fish. I think 50% of folks have access to the net, from what I understand.
 
HappyChem help me out,
I think the most important indicator of water changes is nitrate levels because it's gives you a rough idea of how much dissolved solutes are in your tank. So, if nitrates stay low with 25% weekly changes, then so be it. But eventually, as mentioned, the toxin levels will go up and a 50% change will be necessary, and maybe even 50% for two consecutive days to be safe. Just keep monitoring the nitrate levels.
 
Great post HappyChem!

Everything HappyChem is right on the mark, well said!

Mathematically, that info on water changes can be expressed as a steady state endpoint of "1/(waterchanges)" where waterchanges is a decimal. After that point is reached, with the same water changes, the tank content is stable.

So, 1/.5=2, so 50% water changes has a stable endpoint of 2x units added over the time period. If that is a water change once a week, that is 2 weeks of waste in the tank. If that is 50% a day then it is 2 days of waste in the tank.

So, the 20% water change each month leaves 5 months of waste in the tanik, just as if you started with a 100% clean tank and didn't change water for 5 months.

My fish only tanks get a 50% WC every other week, in tanks that are lightly stocked with dual cansiter filtration. The planted tanks get 50% a week for the higher light tank with more fertilization needs and dual canisters, 50% every other week for the smaller lower light tanks.

The juvenile discus get 50% every other day, with triple filtration and rather overstocked with well fed fish in a barebottom tank with some plants on wood.
 
We can use [NO3] (nitrate concentration) as an indicator of organics because NH3 is a product of fish metabolism, so in a cycled tank NO3 is associated with NH3 and so NO3 is associated with fish wastes.

If we assume that at least the majority of organics come from fish, or at least that all organics are produced with a concomitant release of ammonia, then NO3 can be used as a proxy measure of the organic pollutant load.

<Fish also excrete heavy metals, I forgot about that in the earlier post.>

The same approach can be applied to NO3 measurements as I showed for our imaginary pollutant. Simply consider that fish produce 'x' amount of ammonia in a cylcled tank in a week. If you're doing 50% WC's weekly, your NO3 levels should level out at x/0.5 or twice the concentration produced weekly after a set number of weeks.

Yes, monitoring NO3 is the most quantitative way a hobbyist has to know whether enough water is being changed. Choose your benchmark, be it 10, 20 or 40ppm. However, there are a couple things to think of, first many folks won't want to buy test kits, second if there are plants in the tank you lose the association between pollution and NO3.

If based on your stocking load (amount of fish vs. tank size) and feeding routine and 25% change is sufficient to maintain NO3 at a stable level below your chosen benchmark, then 25% weekly is all that's necessary in your tank. Like got_nailed said, it really depends on what fish, what tank, how often you feed, etc. A lot of variables.

But no, toxin levels will not continue to rise after the tank reaches its equilibrium. You can measure it using NO3 and an estimate of weekly change percent.

Your equilibrium [NO3] = weekly input of NO3/percent water changed per week

Someone handy at math could work out the Taylor series for it and figure out the amount of time necessary too, I just used Excel and auto-filled :D

Eg. if after a week your NO3 increases by 5ppm and you do a 25% water change weekly:
[NO3]equilibrium=5ppm/0.25=5ppm x 4=20ppm

Neither NO3 nor associated toxins will increase in concentration beyond this level.

I know it can be tough to get your head around, but maybe this will help.

Let's go back to the earlier example of 100 units of an imaginary pollutant per week with 50% changes. But now lets follow what happens to the pollutant from the first week:
week 1: 100 -> remove half -> 50
week 2: 50 -> remove half -> 25
.
.
.
week 8: 0.75 -> remove half -> 0.38

Remember that the equilibrium concentration is about 200 units, so by now the first week's contribution to this is minute, negligible even. No, it will never be completely eliminated, but it will become infintessimally small.
 
Archangel said:
A month went by. I came for my tank. Put the fish in a cooler, filled w/ (very) dirty aquarium water. So far, everythings fine. All the (9)fish are alive. I start filling the tank up w/ cool water at my new place, and slowly pour in the water from the cooler and add the fish(by this time, lots of nasty crap from the gravel comes floatin out, and I mean alot). Boom. (7) fish instantly die. 2 more lived for a while. My pleco was the last to die. It looked like he had burns all along his body(maybe amonia burns?) and he started to grow alot of fungus on his tail. He died during medical treatment

Could've been the disturbing the gravel, releasing a lot of waste and ammonia. Could've been the cool water, temp change can kill. Could've been the need for dechlorinator, chlorine kills really fast. Could've been a large change in TDS -- buildt up salts in the water create osmotic pressure and a large change in presure is like opening the window in a spaceship -- cellular explosion. All good reasons to kep gravel clean and not allow tank water to vary too much from tap water. If it has changed, you have to make small changes slowly to allow the fish to adjust.
 
Megatron, have you talked to your PCM about your co-workers? If they are 'correcting' you when you're talking to customers, they're out of line. And wrong, to boot. Tell your PCM they're giving people the wrong advice, and what they're telling them will kill their fish. What do the handout sheets you have in your store say about frequency of water changes? If they say once a week, 25 - 30% like mine, that will clearly show your co-workers they are in the wrong and they're giving customers bad advice. Show them this thread...ask them if they have any tanks they cycled without losing a single fish. Ask them if they lost any fry in a month-old tank. I've got 2 tanks, a 2.5 gallon with about 12 assorted fry netted from our overflow boxes and 2 goldfish and 2 guppies in a 3 week-old setup (10 gallon, I know, the goldfish will outgrow it...they will have an adequate size tank by May) and not one fish has died on me. Not even the babies! Thankfully, my friend from work took some of the babies last night, I did have 23 of them and they were growing fast! How'd I do that? Water changes, water changes, water changes...make sure it is close in temp. to the tank water...use Prime.

Water changes = healthier fish.
 
No have not spoken with my RPCM about the issue and i don't intend to its more of a "this seems to work for me "kinda thing that is a little un-informed. I will however direct my coworkers to this site... im going to work in 20minlol.
And yeah I direct customers to this site on a daily basis our caresheets don't have nearly enough info on cycling, fish behavior etc.....
 
Heh... it used to be 10% weekly, but now with the added two angels, I'm doing 2 changes per week. My tank is pretty overstocked too, but I manage it closely, and everyone is very happy and healthy. And, I might add that the fish, especially the platys, get excited about water changes... like to swim in the current of fresh water. And it seems to stimulate the neons to spawn.

25 gallon Eclipse
7 serpae tetras
6 neon tetras
2 sunset platys
1 longfinned rosy barb
2 angels
1 chinese algae eater
1 cory
1 dwarf frog

Eclipse 3 system with DIY filter... filter floss and ammonia chips (no carbon)
DIY yeast/sugar CO2 injection through ceramic airstone
standard ceramic airstone (for night O2 support)
swords, moneywort, hornwort, some funky red plant, and a huge banana plant
 
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