This thread has had more replies than expected. I will stay with the UGF im my 92 being that gravel is vaccumed weekly and I have a Cannisster and power filter. Thanks for all the replies!!!
I would like everybodys views on UGF's
- Thread starter JacksontoKobe
- Start date
Tiger - if nitrification bacteria colonized that quickly and easily, folks could just add water from an existing tank to a new tank with a clean sponge (or for that matter a clean UG) and complete the cycle within a week or less - by your supposition. It does not happen that way in reality. Test it for yourself. I already have.
There is beneficial bacteria in water. But, a colonized sponge has a HIGHER concentration. I had an established tank that didn't have the greatest filtration. It was borderline. I pulled out an established sponge from the tank and put in a new out of the box sponge. It didn't have that high concentration of beneficial bacteria on it. Ended up having an ammonia spike and killing off a few fish.
PTR, Actually it happened to me many times by my ignorance. In my young first 10 year of my hobby, I had a 10 gal tank with an air lift UGF as the sole filtration. I didn't know about biological filtration or that UGF need to be maintained. I broke up the UGF every 3 to 6 months when the bottom of the plate got gunk up. The fish were net into a bucket with old water. The gravel, ornament and tank were washed in the bathtub until the water came out clean. I did know about chlorine and temperature adjustment and so I stored new water overnight. Then I reset the tank and refilled it with new and old water and fish. I don't recall losing any fish after many of such drastic changes except for fish jumped out of the bucket. I guess the biological system must be able to recover quickly with some old tank water as seeding. Now I understand more about aquarium science and I will not recommend risking such drastic cleaning
Currently, I do large 75 percent water change in my heavily loaded tanks every two weeks along with wall to wall substrate vaccuuming, and sometimes cleaning of all filters at the same time. In fact, I prefer major cleaning of my filters immediately before water change so I can vacuum out the gunk that got flushed out of the filters. I have never had problem with this drastic measure but rather prevent prolems from happening. So I am very confident that in a cycled FW system, bacteria can adjust quickly. Please do not do it to SW though or else you are asking for disaster because in SW, nitrification is known to proceed very slowly.
Currently, I do large 75 percent water change in my heavily loaded tanks every two weeks along with wall to wall substrate vaccuuming, and sometimes cleaning of all filters at the same time. In fact, I prefer major cleaning of my filters immediately before water change so I can vacuum out the gunk that got flushed out of the filters. I have never had problem with this drastic measure but rather prevent prolems from happening. So I am very confident that in a cycled FW system, bacteria can adjust quickly. Please do not do it to SW though or else you are asking for disaster because in SW, nitrification is known to proceed very slowly.
Actually, not to get in the middle of an argument, transfering water only has always worked for me to cycle tanks. Each of my 11 tanks, since my first, has been started by transfering a portion of water from my first tank. Each tank has been cycled within a week, with no fish loss.
As for undergravel filters, my father has been using them for longer than I've been alive, and will swear by them. His tanks are consistently healthy, and he has the largest, most beautiful angels I've ever seen.
Personally, I don't like them. I'd rather stick to canisters and sponge filters. But they do have their value, as do a lot of things that people disagree with, like carbon. But thats a whole other discussion.
As for undergravel filters, my father has been using them for longer than I've been alive, and will swear by them. His tanks are consistently healthy, and he has the largest, most beautiful angels I've ever seen.
Personally, I don't like them. I'd rather stick to canisters and sponge filters. But they do have their value, as do a lot of things that people disagree with, like carbon. But thats a whole other discussion.
I use an undergravel filter but thats mostly for added depth and hiding places for burrowing fish like kulhis and other small swimmers. I just think that adding that to the tank helps it along.
Since this antique thread has been resurected, I'll fill in an update on my planted OE-RFUG tank mentioned earlier in the thread- at well over a year of operation now, it is doing beautifully. Other than having to add nitrates periodicaly to support the plants, it is one of my easiest to maintain tanks, and has already provided enough extra plants to set several other tanks. All the plants used are deep-rooted types, no stem plants or floaters.
That first trial has gone so well I am setting a couple more larger tanks in the same manner but with a broader selection of rooted rosette plants - prefiltered OE-RFUG and supplemental mechanical-only in the water column. I think I am likely to continue prefering more convetional substrates as I tend to rich substrates and lean water column, but it is certainly a low-work alternative.
That first trial has gone so well I am setting a couple more larger tanks in the same manner but with a broader selection of rooted rosette plants - prefiltered OE-RFUG and supplemental mechanical-only in the water column. I think I am likely to continue prefering more convetional substrates as I tend to rich substrates and lean water column, but it is certainly a low-work alternative.
i think they are swell because if you have a disease to treat, shut off the fluval and just run the UGF
i think the best filtration would be about 20 pengin minis on a 150 gallon tank
i think the best filtration would be about 20 pengin minis on a 150 gallon tank
I will chip in with my opinion.
Undergravel filters work, and that is their problem.
I will never set up another tank using a UGF, or RUGF, for that matter.
My reasons are as follows:
1) I don't like a part of my aquarium inaccessable; namely, beneath the filter plate. The "gunk" that accumulates there is always problematical. And, if you should be so unfortunate as to find fish fry beneath the plate, you must watch them slowly die because of their misfortune.
2) The lift tubes, air stones and/or powerheads detract from the aesthetics of the aquarium.
3) Increased frequency of gravel bed vacuumings because that's where the nasties are.
4) Inability to keep plants or certain fish.
5) UGs are just "old school"--passe.
Bill
Undergravel filters work, and that is their problem.
I will never set up another tank using a UGF, or RUGF, for that matter.
My reasons are as follows:
1) I don't like a part of my aquarium inaccessable; namely, beneath the filter plate. The "gunk" that accumulates there is always problematical. And, if you should be so unfortunate as to find fish fry beneath the plate, you must watch them slowly die because of their misfortune.
2) The lift tubes, air stones and/or powerheads detract from the aesthetics of the aquarium.
3) Increased frequency of gravel bed vacuumings because that's where the nasties are.
4) Inability to keep plants or certain fish.
5) UGs are just "old school"--passe.
Bill
While I would never dictate to RioXingu or anyone else how to run their own tanks - we all have carte blanch to operate as we deem best or desirable for a given set-up. But I cannot resist responding to RX's points:
1. Plenums are inaccessible, as are DSBs, coil denitrators, UV sterilizers, etc. Not everything in all tanks is or for me needs to be immediately accessible.
2. Lift tubes, just like siphon tubes, heaters, etc. are or can be unsightly. concealing such without compromising operational efficiency is just aquascaping, a learnable skill. The powerhead, prefilter, and "lift" (even though downflow) tube are all invisible in the tank mentioned in my last post.
3. Prefiltered RFUG has no gravel-bed "nasties".
4. I have known folks (including Tom Barr/plantbrain) who have successfully kept planted aquaria over UG/RFUG, and to date I am having no issues at all, not have I with veggie filters set over RFUG. Nor have I ever kept any fish which was incompatible with OE-RFUG. I would to hear just why plants and any fish should be incompatible.
5. UG, Canisters, HOBs, and actually W/Ds are all about the same age. Each has its pluses and minuses, so you select what suits your needs for a paricular situation. I use more canisters than anything else, but I also use W/Ds and RFUG and FBF. The only format I don't use is HOB, I think that I can always top their function with alternate techniques and with far less noise - but that is personal choice, I do not consider them outdated, I just prefer other techniques..
1. Plenums are inaccessible, as are DSBs, coil denitrators, UV sterilizers, etc. Not everything in all tanks is or for me needs to be immediately accessible.
2. Lift tubes, just like siphon tubes, heaters, etc. are or can be unsightly. concealing such without compromising operational efficiency is just aquascaping, a learnable skill. The powerhead, prefilter, and "lift" (even though downflow) tube are all invisible in the tank mentioned in my last post.
3. Prefiltered RFUG has no gravel-bed "nasties".
4. I have known folks (including Tom Barr/plantbrain) who have successfully kept planted aquaria over UG/RFUG, and to date I am having no issues at all, not have I with veggie filters set over RFUG. Nor have I ever kept any fish which was incompatible with OE-RFUG. I would to hear just why plants and any fish should be incompatible.
5. UG, Canisters, HOBs, and actually W/Ds are all about the same age. Each has its pluses and minuses, so you select what suits your needs for a paricular situation. I use more canisters than anything else, but I also use W/Ds and RFUG and FBF. The only format I don't use is HOB, I think that I can always top their function with alternate techniques and with far less noise - but that is personal choice, I do not consider them outdated, I just prefer other techniques..
