Ich Massacre

Ok guys, I went out and bought the API Freshwater Master Kit and I also got a new filter system (Marineland Penguin 200C Biowheel). I even got new rocks lol.

Petsmart nor Petco had Ammonia so I couldn't buy any but I dont think I need it to actually start the tank, right? I'm going to try and start it tonight and get the Ammonia tomorrow or Wendesday.

So half the people I talk to say that they like the under-gravel filters, and the other half say it's a waste. Any other opinions?
 
Another question..Do I need to get new tubes for my under gravel filter system if I do put it back in? Like the air media at the bottom of the tubes that blows air bubbles out, are those ok for another round? I'm not too sure what I can or can not put back in or if I can just put everything back in?
 
Well, normally by now I'd see something from rbishop on the subject of cycling so instead I just pulled this off one of his other posts. :p:

Fishless cycling:

Just as it sounds, you can establish the cycling environment without any fish. This method does not pose any threat to fish, establishes a large bacteria colony allowing full stocking upon completion and gives you time to decide on what fish you want.

When establishing a tank with this method, you will use a source of ammonia to initiate the nitrogen cycle. After your tank is set up, add water and treat for chlorine/chloramines. Your filtering systems and heaters should be in place and operating to your satisfaction.

Add ammonia to bring the tank to a concentration of 5 ppm. The amount you add will vary with the size tank you have. Do not be in a rush. Add small amounts and test, repeating as necessary. If you get it too high, you can drain and refill.

Now the hurry up and wait part happens. Every two days, test your ammonia level in the tank. When the ammonia levels start dropping, add additional ammonia as required to keep the ammonia at 3-4 ppm, start daily testing and test for ammonia and nitrites. Nitrites should be developing as ammonia goes away. This first stage could take 1-3 weeks.

When you see the test results showing Nitrites, start maintaining your ammonia at the 2-3 ppm range. The nitrites increasing reflect you are in to the second stage. Continue daily testing for ammonia and maintain the tank in the 3 ppm range. You will see nitrites climb so high they will be off the scale for a reading. This will continue for one to two weeks and it will seem the nitrites are never going to go away.

There will be a day where you test and the nitrites have completely disappeared, thus, the bacteria that convert them to nitrates have established themselves. When you see this drop to zero on nitrites, dose ammonia in the tank to about 5 ppm, and wait 24 hours. If at the end of that period, ammonia and nitrites are zero, your cycle has been established. Test for nitrates, and do a 75-90% water change. Pull your water down to 20 ppm nitrates and add the fish! If you have to wait to get your fish, keep the cycle established by dosing more ammonia, but you may have to do another water change before adding your fish.


Personally speaking searching for it and cut and pasting it was so much easier than trying to type all that out myself. Just to go back to the start of it more than likely ich didn't directly lead to your fish death. This seems to be a case of ammonia / nitrite poisoning in a new aquarium. As other have stated in a properly cycled aquarium you should see ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, and nitrate < 40 ppm. You can also take the time to properly do a fishy cycle, but that would entail starting your aquarium with only about 3 fish and building up slowly from there taking upwards of 2 months between the adding of fish.
 
baltimorepablo said:
Well the thing is, I'm not getting a new filter anyways unless I need one. If my Tetra is good then I can just buy another biofilter pack for it.



And I shouldn't waste my time on putting the under-gravel filter system back in place?

No, don't bother with the under-gravel filter. The maint. is too much of a PITA, and if you don't keep it up, it becomes utterly useless because you have to completely dissassemble the tank to fix it.

My method of "backup" filtration for my 38g (primary is a Rena XP2 canister) is a 40g rated sponge filter (the Hydro-Sponge III) I got for $8 from Big Al's. I was already going to get an airpump for decorative purposes, so this was a really cheap no-cost-maintenance backup filter. (Maintenance consists of squeezing the sponge in a bucket of tank water once a month to clean the major crud out.)

The drawback of the Tetra whispers is that they have a foam sponge (which is what provides the permanent Biofiltration), but the regular replacable media is the pricey "Bio Bags". I'd recommend instead buying some aftermarket empty filter bags and stuffing them with floss. Their BioBags are really mis-named because anything you are supposed to replace regularly makes for a really poor biofilter.

If your model Tetra takes two BioBags, only replace one at any one time to help out the biofilter shock with every change.

SirWired
 
Well I purchased the other filter system (Marineland Penguin 200C Biowheel) on Sunday so I'm going to toss the Tetra. I will not put the undergravel filter in - but if I dont put it in should I use my syphon vaccum that I have? Where it picks up the rocks and throws them back in and sucks water out? All the food and fish poop will mess with the tank I'm sure and I just don't see how it will all be cleaned up by the filter system.

Also, I can't find ONE Place that sells ammonia, I have heard from a couple people that it's ok if I put one fish in the tank as my source of ammonia while I cycle it. If I keep my eyes on the tank while doing this the fish should be ok. Thoughs?
 
If you have an Ace Hardware nearby, they sell "Janitorial Strength Ammonia". This is supposed to be ok.

In any case, if you can't find Ammonia, you can toss in an uncooked shrimp or two and as they decay, they will provide ammonia for the tank.

The problem with using a single fish as the ammonia source is that the adding of any new fish results in a mini-cycle while your biofilter adjusts to the increased load. Fishless cycling, due to the high Ammonia levels used (that would kill fish in hours if you actually had them in the tank), will create a bio-filter strong enough for ANY reasonably stocked tank.

SirWired
 
baltimorepablo said:
should I use my syphon vaccum that I have? Where it picks up the rocks and throws them back in and sucks water out? All the food and fish poop will mess with the tank I'm sure and I just don't see how it will all be cleaned up by the filter system.

Absolutely. When you get the tank established, a good plan is to vacuum one half on one water change, then vacuum the opposite half on the next change.

FYI - That undergravel filter was pulling the 'gunk' down into the gravel, and below the plates of the UGF, but that's as far as it got. It didn't remove anything, it just hid it from view. You're way better off without it. Smart move on your part, IMO.
 
Wait! Don't toss out the filter. You can always clean it out and run two filters on one tank.
 
Ok, so I think what I'm going to do is not put the under-gravel filter back in but instead put my new filter plus maybe buy a secondary floating filter (any ideas on a good one?) or put my old Tetra Whisper in with the new one so that I have dual-filters.

As far as the cycling goes, I think I'm just going to put everything in today and tomorrow I'll put a fish in (after putting it in quarantine for a day). I'll test the water everyday, twice a day when I can, and adjust levels as must as I can with water changes. The fish should provide the natural ammonia levels that I desire and since I will only have one then I won't have to deal with 10 stressed out fish. Hopefully in a month the levels will all be good and I'll maybe just add one, maximum of 2, fish to start and slowly add more every couple weeks.
 
let me confuse you more..
you can run a ugf and make it a rfug(reverse flow under gravel) ..I run one and i know many others who do.



but it can get spendy since you would need a powerhead set up with a spnge prefilter.

ugf catch a bad rap//but if they are set up and maintained properly they are an excellent bio filter.


you should also keep doing gravel vac's as you would in a regular tank.
 
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