ICH/salt/temp question

I would be sorely disappointed if everybody took what I said as carved in stone. I am not preaching belief or myth, I am trying to get folks to question why they do the things they do, and to reject myths, not accept new ones. Biology and chemistry can be complex, and we certainly do not understand everything that goes on in our fish tanks, but we do and can understand an awful lot. If folks question what I say, and what others say, and most especially what LFS and manufacturers say, they are very likely to end up with better more stable and far healthier tanks. It ain't simple, I will not try to kid you on that, but neither does it require multiple advanced degrees to get a bit of understanding and to disbelieve much of what you hear or read.

Actually, that applies to a lot more than just fish tanks, :D
 
My clown loaches are doing fine. They are very active - they've been chasing each other around all day. The ich has really gotten more obvious though, I guess that is just part of the lifecycle. They had just a few tiny spots each when I first started treatment, now they seem to have it all over. The salt and the temps don't seem to be having adverse effects on any of my fish so far. I am keeping an eye on my butterfly loach for any signs of ich. I plan to leave him in his current tank indefinately - he seems to like it in there. :p
Does anyone know if ich attacks snails? :confused:
 
Nope, no snails, just fish. They could however passively transport the infection in the water film around them if moved to a clean tank from an infected one while the free-swimming stage was present. Not awfully likely, but possible.

The parasites which have embedded are not affected by any Ich treatment- they are protected beneath the fish's slime coat and skin. Those continue to develop normally. Only the free-swimming stage is affected by treatment.
 
The ich just seems to keep getting worse! I know it has to go through the life cycle in order for the treatment to work, but how long should it take to see some improvement? They are so pitiful! They have really started to show signs of irritation from the ich - rubbing themselves against everything, and they aren't quite as active as usual. It's so sad!!!! :sad
 
Used coppersafe at half-strength last year to treat my 4 clown loaches ich. It worked great. I had tried the salt/heat to no avail. The tank also contained tetras and corys. All the clowns, tetras and corys are still alive today. No additional outbreaks. This tank also had a few java fern. IMO the high heat and salt can be just as harmful to fish and plants and less effective as meds. With sensitive fish its important to be mindful and dose the medication over time at 1/2 to 1/3 strength. Clean water is beneficial and frequent water changes are a must.

Scott
 
adblair said:
The ich just seems to keep getting worse! I know it has to go through the life cycle in order for the treatment to work, but how long should it take to see some improvement? They are so pitiful! They have really started to show signs of irritation from the ich - rubbing themselves against everything, and they aren't quite as active as usual. It's so sad!!!! :sad
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If the temp is up, and the salt is in the tank, ICH shold not continue getting worse for more than a couple of days. Just for update purposes, what is you temp now, what is the salt level in your tank.
Also are you using Sodium chloride, and not marine salt? The ich essentially grows on the fish fullly protected so it wouldn't be uncommon for it to seem like it is increasing during the first couple days. once it hatches off of your fish it shouldn't come back to them unless the treatment isn't adequate to kill it. It cannot be killed while on your fish or in the substrate. it is only vulnerable during the freeswimming stage while it is looking for a new host. but at that time it should not be able to survive salt or temperatures above 86*F. OLet us know how things are going.
Dave
 
The temp is 86, and I did slowly increase the salt level to 1 tsp per gallon. I add 1 tsp salt/gallon to the water I replace at water changes (yes, I know this isn't necessarily accurate, but I have very little evaporation) They look the same today. The gouramis have no signs of ich whatsoever - just the clown loaches.
 
As far as accurately measuring the salt, that's a really trivial thing IMO. The range reccomended by the skeptical aquarist is 1-3 tsp per gallon, I usually shoot for two which allows me to err as much as 1 tsp per gallon in either direction. 1 tsp per gallon should be very fatal to ICH, and in reality, 86*f should be without the salt. evaporation is something that only comes into play when it is extreme, or when long term use of salt is done. In this case even if the level elevated a bit, you won't have any trouble.
I would guess you just need to give it a little more time. Remember when these parasites are free swimming they are too small to see, they attach to the fish and grow into the salt grain sized cysts. It's highly possible that the ich you see now was already on the fish when you started treatment, just not large enough to see yet. when they hatch off of the fish they sink to the substrate and multiply. then they hatch out into free swimmers and go after a host again. they can't be killed until they hatch, but once they do they cannot survive salt.

Heavy vaccuming will assist the treatment period as well, in that any ich in the substrate can be removed with a gravel vac before it hatches. I would not say this step is necessary, but it does help in some regard and doesn't hurt your fish or tank at all.
dave
 
Yep, I did it......got a couple new Cardinal Tetras a week ago, and now I have what I believe is Ich in my 29 gal hex. It is showing on the two Boesmani Rainbows which happen to be our favorites and the tank models.

I have raised the temp....on its way to 86 and added 2 tablespoons of aquarium salt and last night did about a 40% water change and a good cleaning. The tank is a couple years old and I have had very healthy fish all along until now.

Now do I just wait? How long should I wait until I clean it again and do I add a teaspoon or a tablespoon per gal when I change water?

Thank you so very much for any and all advice!

p.s.- havent figured out how to edit my signature....no otto, no danios, and now only 3 tetras...all else is the same
 
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I have raised the temp....on its way to 86 and added 2 tablespoons of aquarium salt and last night did about a 40% water change and a good cleaning. The tank is a couple years old and I have had very healthy fish all along until now.
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2 tablespoons per What? The dosage is 2 tsp per gallon give or take 1 tsp. 2 tablespoons per gallon is twice the reccomended maximum dose. I hope that was a typo. More importantly how are your fish acting. They will tell you if it is too hihg for them to tolerate.

Next thing save yourself some money and use table salt in the future. It's all you need. Most Fw aquarium salt is nothing more than table salt, and marine salt is many things you don't want or need in a freshwater tank.

When you do water changes just add salt to the change water in whatever quantity you wish to maintain the tank at.
Dave
 
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