Ich STILL not gone...

[rosita]

OK, It's confirmed.. It's an official relapse of ICK. It looked to have been gone, but it's back. Just when you thought it was safe.


Here is what I think did it... It's recommended that you dose 50% for sensitive fish, but I had been dosing 38-40 drops of QuickCure as apposed to 30. That's only cuttine back 1/3.... After the ich had gone, I cut the dosage to 28-30. I DID have a RAM die on me, so i wanted to be careful. Apparently a half dose doesn't really do it.

So far, I've added 30 tsp of Salt, and I hope to have it up to about 75-80 by tomorrow morning. I'm also continuing the 40 drops of quick cure. The temp is at about 82-83. I'm guessing that the ICH should be gone(from past experience) by Tuesday or Wednesday, and I'll continue the Quick Cure for at least week after that.
The bad news is that I'm recieving new Rams on Wednesday, so I''ll have to put them in my only safe tank.. the 12 gallon. They'll have it all to themselves, so they should be OK. That should FORCE me to do a quarentine, and I may just leave them in their(supposed to be a pair) and see if I can breed them.

Ayksten, from what I gather, you are dosing the 60g with both QuickCure and salt/heat at the same time. This is what the others were referring to. When doing the salt/heat methodology of decimating Ich, it's really important to follow Dave's "prescription." As stated several places, just because you no longer see it doesn't mean it's gone. Ich undergoes three phases, with only one vulnerable to the treatment--and it divides rapidly and in huge amounts. Adding QuickCure, or any other over-the-counter med, is only going to interfere with the salt/heat cure, and possibly have rather adverse effects on your fish. Although Dave states that one may hasten the eradication to "a few days to a week," with higher temps, e.g. 80 F, when I had an outbreak of Ich last fall I ran it for a full 3 weeks. The thought of the cysts just hanging around in my substrate, waiting for another outbreak on vulnerable fish, put the fear of Ich in me. To this day, I've run a number of fish through that tank as quarantine/grow-out tank, knock on wood I have had no more problems. As a newb, I'd started with malachite, but once I found AC and the article, I did water changes and started with the salt/heat course. And, I continued to do PWC's during the 3 weeks, adding more salt as necessary.

I hope you find this helpful, for I am not fussing at you in any way, just trying to clarify for you what's been posted, and my own personal experience. I truly hope you are able to clear the Ich from your tank, that's a big one for treatment (and the salt/heat method is so much less expensive than using bottled meds). Good luck!! May the fish be with you. ~renee

 

[Akysten]

Yeah, I did spout off some ideas without thinking them out didn't I? Doesn't mean I actually did it!
Still, l did not say i was going half/half... more of a full/full. right?
Though the article suggests NOT doing this, other sites say to do the exact thing.


It's funny, there are so many answers so a single question. People are adament that their way is better People have had sucess in different ways. A single question, and so many different answers. It's funny how lines are drawn, some love one method and hate the other(reminds me of politics!). Some more level headed see the advantages in both(the link provided here DOES give fair treatment, and even recommends salt OR meds as the two preferred methods.)

What's out there? This is from Age of Aquariums(Aquahobby.com):

" Many hobbyists also advocate the use of salt to fight off Ich. They recommend adding 1 tablespoon of salt to 4 liters (1 gallon) of water. This will effectively irritate the skin of the fish, causing them to produce and excessive amount of slime. The slime coat serves as a protective layer to fight off parasites. I personally do not believe in this technique or any technique which causes unnecessary stress on the fish. There are other techniques available which are just as effective. "

Apparently, this person feels that Salt is more of a stress than meds... go figure.

I guess the point is, it's all confusing because so many methods and everyone is convinced theirs is the right one. It also doesn't mean the other method is wrong, or even better than the other. (reminds me of the BioWheel, I've had bad experiences with them, but others swear by them). It's all what works for you.


I thank all for their advice.

 

[daveedka]

" Many hobbyists also advocate the use of salt to fight off Ich. They recommend adding 1 tablespoon of salt to 4 liters (1 gallon) of water. This will effectively irritate the skin of the fish, causing them to produce and excessive amount of slime. The slime coat serves as a protective layer to fight off parasites. I personally do not believe in this technique or any technique which causes unnecessary stress on the fish. There are other techniques available which are just as effective. "

Sorry if I sound irruitable, but I wrote the article to clear up the myths, anyone can do proper research and quickly find that everything in the article is scientifically accurate, can be reproduced repeatedly with identicle results, and can be backed up by everyone who ever tried it.

As to the Quote above. That person is an idiot who has not made a decent attempt at understanding the parasite before voicing their ill founded view on the subject. Salt kills ich, the fact that it may also irritate the skin and increase slime shedding is a side effect that is unnecessary to irradicate ich. Additionally, While salt is definately an irritant, anyone who believes salt is more stressful than meds has never tried it I gaurantee. If half doasages of medication had any chance of being effective why do the have a full dose????
The fact is full dosage is borderline on effective in many tanks due to organic levels, Half dose is a waste of time and money that kills fish and frustrates fish keepers. As you have seen clearly half dosages don't work. and as said by several here if you had read the article you would know that because it is in the article.
Yes meds work, Yes salt works, Meds are harder to use, come with more variables that create potential for failure, and are much harder on your fish. Therefore while I will gladly say that meds can and will be effective, It is not a matter of opinion that Salt is the better option.

Half measures of Salt will stand to be effective most of the time, but not all of the time. Half measures of meds are simply never effective in my experience. I do not reccomend half measures of either at any time.

There simply is no need to do both, becuase one or the other will kill ich. Why anyone with loaches would continue to use Quick cure after reading the article is the real mystery and the reason everyione responding is frustrated right now. The solution is simple, and yet you still continue to do things that do not benefit your fish, and confuse the issue.

Feel free to find some scientific data that refutes anything in that ich article.

Dave

 

[Brody3665]

Listen to Daveedka, he knows what he is talking about....Salt Works and Works Well !!!!

 

[phanmc]

I can understand someone's hesitation to not listen to advice from anonymous posters, the internet are full of "experts" that really have no true experience and only recite what they've read elsewhere. To those that gets angry or offended that people aren't accepting their advice, get used to it. I agree that Dave knows what he's talking about, but I've had the pleasure of reading and posting with him for the past couple of years. Newcomers don't have that luxury.

In terms of this particular case, I can definately understand Akysten's hesitation to use salt since loaches and plants are involved. Many websites and forums warn about a loach's sensitivity to salt treatment and I personally was hesitant to use the salt treatment in my planted tank for the longest time. What I've found out, and I do have Dave to thank, is that most plants are very resilient and can take more punishment than the fishes. As for the loaches, they appear to be just as sensitive, if not more so, to medication as to salt. But you'll never know unless you try. And since you've tried one method and it failed, let's try the other one and see if you'll get better results.

 

[Akysten]

It took about 3 weeks, but the ICH is finally gone. I didn't lose a fish... Well, that's not entirely true.. I did lose a Blue Ram, but I think he was questionably to start with.. and the medication did him in... or the first water change(chloromine). I ended up losing the OTHER Ram I purchased with him in a healthy tank about a week later.

They were purchased from the same place I puchased the Praecox Rainbows who I believe may have brought the ICH into the tank. I'm going to have to be very careful when buying from this place in the future, and always quarantine.

Loaches did fine through the entire process... so did the Tetras and Pleco.. These were the fish I were most worried about. I think the Praecox rainbows showed the most stress from the process... I didn't lose any, but I had a couple show some ill effects that may or may not have been due to the process. They did color up and start breeding again after I changed out the treatment and lowered the temps... but it may have had more to do with the Temps and oxygen levels.