Is equipment needed for sw much different from fw?

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beatle

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Dec 7, 2005
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Alexandria, VA
www.mdbbox.com
My ignorance will really show here. :) Some coworkers each have 90g FOWLR tanks with sumps and protein skimmers. I'm thinking about taking the plunge into salt. I'm thinking of a 29g FOWLR and maybe some LPS corals down the road, but SPS doesn't really interest me. I know I'll need more powerful light (ahsupply :)) and of course, salt. What else do I NEED to have to start a tank? Can I buy tufa or lace rock and then "cure" it myself? Do I need to buy live sand or would a bag of aragonite do the trick? Do I need equipment like an RO/DI unit, UV sterilizer, protein skimmer, etc?
 
A bag of aragonite will work just as well, no need to buy live sand--and actually, stealing a cup of sand from your co-workers tank would be even better!

For rock...Depends. Yes, you can buy tufa or lace rock, but there is no 'curing' of dry, dead rock. There IS cycling, either way, but ony live rock will need curing, as it may have dead organics that will rot off.

RO/DI depends on your water source. If you have good water, you can run it without but may have some issues to deal with. If you don't have good water, then the RO/DI will save you tons and tons of hassle down the line.

UV Sterilizer--absolutely not needed. Totally. There are some situation when they can be helpful, but they can also cause lots of problems, and they are not needed for a healthy tank.

Protien skimmers. I'll hedge and say yes. In bigger tanks, it's easier to make the difference up with frequent water changes, but with smaller tanks, a skimmer can make a tank work when it otherwise would not.
 
I understand the nitrogen cycle with fw. Does the same apply to sw? Do you build up the nitrifying bacteria on a HOB or canister filter as you would in a fw setup? I'm not sure what the rock is supposed to do if it's not "live." Does it become live as the nitrogen cycle completes or are there bacteria/organisms that appear only in sw? Can I cycle my tank with ammonia as I did with my fw setups?

WRT the RO/DI setup, would my water qualify as good or bad? Here's my county's water report:
http://www.fcwa.org/water/ccr/fairfax2005.pdf

Is there other equipment needed that I did not mention? I actually have a protein skimmer from a coworker who is no longer using it, as he does not have the pump anymore. I believe he had it worked into his overflow/sump setup somehow, but can I run it without one? It's a 25-250g Red Sea Berlin. I have Mag 6.5 and 9 pumps from another tank purchase... are they attached directly to the protein skimmer or do I need something specific to the skimmer to make it work?

Sorry for all the questions, I haven't found a FAQ that's less than a few hundred pages. :)
 
Yes, the cycle is the same in SW. :) Live rock serves as a host for the bacteria, and while tufa and other rocks will host the bacteria, the other organisms must be introduced into the tank. This is why buying live rock is a good idea, even if you only get a few small pieces--they'll introduce the organisms, which will then spread to other 'base' rock you put in. The rock also provides a great hiding place for the fish and such to hide--great, natural habitat!

Cycling can be done with either ammonia, or adding raw cocktail shrimp, then monitoring--as with FW, you can use the ammonia to better control the levels.

The skimmer can be run in a sump, or you can try running it over the edge--it just depends. I'm not that familiar with most of the brands, so you'll have to check with someone else for specifics. They do all need a pump or powerhead to run them, but the size pumps needed will vary with the skimmer.

Your water actually looks pretty good--really low nitrates, so the water changes won't be contributing to what the tank produces overly much, and there don't seem to be high levels of copper, or sulfides. The test doesn't list phosphates? Or silica--and while those things can be a concern, they aren't insurmountable. Lots of people will tell you that you MUST use RO/DI, but I've always ran my tanks using water that was filtered for sediment and heavy metals, but not for anything else. Treating for chlorine/chloramines would be necessary, as well.

Other equipment: Lighting, as you know. A few powerheads for water movement. It's more important in SW than FW, IMO--many FW tanks run with just a filter for water movement, and that really won't work in a SW setup. And, there is equipment that you don't need--SW tanks, with adequate live rock and such, can be run without any power filters or canisters. The bacteria will colonize the rocks and sand, and a power filter can act as a nitrate trap, holding solid wastes that decay and spike the nitrates as they're broken down.
 
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I'm actually on speaking terms with one of the chemists at the water authority. :) She gives me a call when they transfer over from chlorine to chloramine. We're in the chlorine months now (April - June). I assume treatment for both are the same? Prime has been my friend when it comes to fw water changes. I should also be able to find out about the silica and phosphate content.

I'm a big fan of rocks in a tank (so are my african cichlids ;)). Is there a way to calculate how much live vs. base rock I need to start a tank and how long to allow the organisms to multiply? I've seen estimates of 1.5-2lbs of live rock / gallon. Since I'm a cheapskate, unless I find a fully established sw tank for sale, I'll likely do as you said and buy some live and some base. Is there a way to tell when the organisms have spread to the other rock? Is this indicitive a complete cycle? I don't fully grasp what these saltwater specific organisms are that define a "live" rock or what these organisms do in the tank. I take it they're different from the nitrifying bacteria present in both fw and sw.
 
Yep, treatment is that same--you'll actually want to treat the water prior to adding the salt mix (at least, I always have--I don't know that it matters much, but since I KNOW Prime works in FW, that's when it's best to do it, IMO).

Some organisms will move over really quickly, some will take months. THe more starter culture, there is, the faster it happens, but you don't HAVE to start with a lot. Starting with 20% live rock will give you a good colony, especially if you're picky and get really good pieces that have lots of critters on them already.

Well, yes, and yes--the critters are different, AND the bacteria that convert nitrogen are different. The FW strains dies out around 1.010-1.018 specific gravity. We don't know the exact point, but it is a different group of bacteria that are maintained in SW aquariums--that's why you can't just cycle the SW setup by moving some of the media over from your FW tanks. But--the 'other' organisms include a huge variety of worms, micro crustaceans, algaes, star fish, limpets, everything....Lots of little scuttley things that are mostly detrivores and food sources for larger organisms (like fish).
 
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