Is it worth buying a pair of L046 for 400 USD?

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professorjimjam

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Feb 4, 2022
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Hello, this is my first post in this forum.

a local breeder is selling grown size pair of L046 one male and one female for 400 USD. I was. thinking of buying it and then breed them.

is it a good idea? is it really worth buying this expensive 400 USD for the pair? I have no idea if they are old or if they would be able to make babies.

Can you please advise?
 

jake72

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Jan 28, 2019
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Depends why you are buying them. Generally speaking I wouldn't... Just be aware the L046 are harder to breed than for example BN. Lots of people breed them but it takes more than mixing water with fish.
 
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I have been breeding and selling zebras since 2006. That price is too cheap for an adult pair of zebras inn their prime. They sell for 1.25+ at 1.5 inches TL. unsexed.

As for age, I am aware of an accomplished breeder which had his oldest male zebra spawn stage 22. I have some I got as proven breeder in 06 that are still alive and may still spawn now and then. However, if your goal is to breed them then age matters. They are most prolific at about age 3+ - 8 to 10 years old and then they can slow down.

Unless you know the seller, or somebody who can vouch for them, I cannot imagine selling a pair in their prime for less than $550 - $600. Females are hard to buy. The ideal ratio is 2m/1fm because the males needs 4 weeks+ to get from eggs to free swimming when the will be booted from the cave. However, A females can produce eggs at about 2 week intervals.

I work with groups as opposed to pairs. But that is because I would hate to have a pair and lose the FM, it would be difficult and expensive to replace one.

They are not especially difficult to breed if you provide the proper conditions and diet. But this is true for many fish. Fish naturally want to spawn. What makes a successful breeder mostly invovles not doing things that would oevent or discourage spawning. Of coruse there are some species which are truly difficult, but we are talking special parameters and diet and also an unusual set-up.
 
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professorjimjam

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thank you T TwoTankAmin .

excuse me if this is too personal, on average how much you would make from sell of these zebra in a single year? I am not planning on breeding for sale. just breeding for fun and I would love to have many of the rare kind plecos.
 

fishorama

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You should pm 2tank to discuss $$ & pleco breeding. He's a renown breeder of several black & white hypancistrus species.

40 years ago a single smaller wild unsexed 046 sold for $100-150...& that was a long time ago...tank bred fish "should" be easier to breed but I'd think I'd be a little skeptical about your local "bargain" pair. Maybe they're old & no longer breeding much? Hard to say...to me $400 is a lot of $$ to spend on even cool fish on the chance of them breeding.

Talk to 2tank!
 
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jake72

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I want to ask about the breeding of these - as I know my local lfs purchased 12 a few years ago and have had some difficulty with breeding them. From my reading it takes a bit of an effort to get the condition right but once favorable then of course they will breeding regularly. You've ( T TwoTankAmin ) been doing this for years but when you first started did it not take a bit of trial and error to encourage them to breed ? Also the LFS indicated that yield is also quite low per breeding.

I personally don't see the value in these fish in the sense that htey are extremely shy (again from reading) and other than making $$$ breeding them they are not going to fit very well in a community tank. While many pleco are shy at least over times the species i have do come out if you don't overly startled them. While not a rare species my most shy pleco is an L333 which stays in his coconut shell 99% of the time (at least during the day). I usually have to drop pellets next to the entrance and if hungry he'll dash out grab one and take it back in. Having one finicky pleco isn't a big deal but I'm not sure I'd want to spend $$$$ on something that never shows up. As for breeding - i do breed some of my fishes but not to sell - more to sustain my population and (at least in the case of angels) play around a bit with combinations to see what they produce.
 
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When I was outputting them at their maxi rate I was selling them at $100/inch. Ultimately, I sold lowered the price by offering the first 1/4 inch for free. As to how much I made that is a relative question. I have owned zebras since about 2003 but breeding was not until 06. I think they are a striking looking fish. Pure white and pure black in world of colors.

Back then I was lucky to be able to buy them and had to spend $270/fish and 5 fry were free. That was $3,510. That did not include the hours spent driving an hour+ each way to see them and then to pick them up. It doesn't count the cost of the tank and contents, the food and electricity, etc. It also doesn't count the fact that the Belo Monte dam may likely wipe them out in wild. It also doesn't count the risk that for any reason one can lose a fish. And it doesn't count the cost of the penalty I had to pay to take a premature withdrawal from my IRA to pay for them.

Next, they do not spawn non stop. The best you can theoretically get from just a pair would be a dozen spawns a year. And the average number of eggs that hatch and that you can expect to sell is 12-15. So you are looking at 144 to 180. But I used to assume 10-12 per spawn so 120 - 144. But they tend to spawn for about 9+ months and then hiatus for about 3+. So you can expect about 108 to 135.

To sell them you will have to ship. My rule was I would not sell them until they had both reached 6 months old and 1.5 inches total length. So you have to feed and house them for that. You have to keep them alive, healthy and growing. You cannot do this on flake or dry sinking foods. Diet matters both for spawning the adults and for feeding the kids.

Today they still sell for $100/inch or a bit more, but not from stores etc. So you can figure out about what one might make from a pair.

If you want to give them a try the safest thing to do is to buy a small group of youngsters. the cost/fish will be less. At a smaller size they are difficult to sex, So the odds are if you buy at least 6, you will for sure get a couple of females. I work with groups not pairs. I feel 6 is the absolute minimum, but I prefer 8 and normally 15 the max. Not pushing things expect it to take between 2 and 3 years if you start with 1.5 inch fish.

The thing about all of this is no matter how well one cares for a pair, no matter how well they are fed, it is still possible to lose one, especially if they are not in their own tank with nothing else that might carry something nasty. But if you did lose one, then all you have is a lovely fish you will rarely see. If you want to work with pairs then you either buy even more and when they get bigger you may be able to vent them and know for sure. or you can try to catch a trapping and pull them both in the cave. But one pair has that added risk if is is all you have for breeding.

I am now in my 70s and working my way out of the hobby over 2022 and 2023. As a result a while back I stopped buying fish I needed to grow for very long before they were potentially able to spawn. You sound a lot younger and can be patient.

As for what I made, mostly it went to pay my hobby costs and then to pay for the next species I got. The price got a lot more than zebras as I moved from expensive to insane ;) But I am a sucker for the B&W Hypancistrus: zebra, L450, contradens, L173b, L236, L173 and my fianl buy, L236 superwhite.Along the way I had addorted tank strains of bn plus P. compta (leopard frog pleco).

Hi, my name is TwoTankAmin and I am an aquaholic.........

I bought proven breeders and I had my first spawn within two weeks of getting them home. I was lucky. There are some real experts who cannot get them to spawn. They had to just ignore them for a year or two and then out of the blue.... I am fortunate, I have great well water for SA fish abd other soter water , near neutral pH fish. Every pleco I have kept has spawned sooner or later. So did angels, corys, danios, blue eyed rainbows betta imbellis and a few others.
 
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