is there something wrong with my blackmoor?

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newbiefishlover

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Apr 17, 2009
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ok, i think/hope the pics are attatched?!
had problems with the file type,
on them though you can roughly make out the affected area, as there is a white 'perimeter' around where the wound was.
you can still see red/flesh in the area , and i was thinking it was healing, but i just looked now, and im not too sure if the area has gotten bigger or not?
and as bad as it sounds, i wont know if it is spreading or not until it does get bigger than what it is :S

anyways hope these awful pics help,

i didnt use flash on these pics, am i right in thinking the flash woud hurt the eyes of the fish?!

DSC00119.JPG DSC00118.JPG
 

Kashta

Always Niko's fault.....
Jun 24, 2008
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Hi again, Nat. Using a flash for photos is okay. There's a good amount of backlighting in these shots from what looks to be a bright window behind the tank. One tip that often works quite well is to try taking photos in the evening. Darken your room lighting and turn on the tank lights, then try some shots without the flash. If your subject fish is in a hospital tank or basin setup with no light, a bright lamp nearby might help brighten the image (probably with the flash on too). My camera auto-focuses on the glass, so fish deeper inside tend to blurr more than they do if I happen to catch them closer to the front. If you try some new photos, taking a step or two further back might sharpen the focus a little better. We can always use a graphic editor to enlarge a small photo somewhat if the focus and resolution is clear enough.

Some thoughts at this point and, yes, even more questions to ask you:

My first question is how's the moor doing today since you posted yesterday? Any changes for the better or worse? Is the fish eating normally and how else is he behaving? Are there any new spots or bumps forming anywhere? Do you see any overall changes in his slimecoat? Is he having any difficulty breathing? Lastly... is the moor flashing or scraping himself against anything?

The affected area of this open sore or wound site is much larger - now that I can see it - than I was expecting. Could you tell us if you believe it has grown to this size on it's own or do you think the other goldie nipping at him made it bigger? Your observations, whatever they may be, are the best help you can give us.

In your original post, you described this area as a noticeable white spot. Did that appear to be mostly at the surface only or did it seem to emerge through the skin from below? As this became more of an open wound (possibly due to this spreading or aggravation by his tankmate), did you see anything that looked white and stringy coming from the sore? Was the white part more grainy or crusty looking, slimy looking, or cottony?

Unless they're caused by trauma/injury, white or red sores on the body with some fungus-looking growth are generally caused by bacterial infection. Where this becomes more confusing, however, is that bacterial infection is often secondary to flukes or other parasites. So further treatment for those in addition to the sore itself may become necessary. We'll be better able to determine that after hearing how you answer some of these questions.

For now, I would suggest adding 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon to the water as a tonic -- completely predissolved in some of his water first. This helps reduce stress he might be under right now due to the open sore. The addition of salt to the water will diminish oxygenation, so make sure this tank is getting good aeration. We might ask you to increase the salt concentration or recommend other stronger measures after hearing updates from you again. (If he's doing a lot better already and the wound appears to be healing, of course, this won't be necessary.) Be sure you also keep up with daily water changes the whole time he is quarantined and siphon away any leftover food or debris that you may see.

There are two things I was hoping to see from your photos that I just can't make out at all, so I'll ask about those and attach some other images of sores with white edges for you to use for comparison. Would you describe the sore as looking whitish pink, a medium pink, or more red/dark red? I also can't tell how deep it looks... so here are some photos for you to look at to give us those answers.

goldfish1.jpg goldfish2.jpg goldfish3.jpg goldfish.jpg
 
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newbiefishlover

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Apr 17, 2009
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the moor seems no differnt than normal, just a bit more 'floaty round' rather than swimming round,but thats only since seperating him!
no new spots or bumps have formed.
erm the next one- how do you mean slime coat?
his breathing seems the same as the other fish?
he hasnt been flashing or scraping himself against anything that i know of- he just swims/floats round the tank.


The affected area of this open sore or wound site is much larger - now that I can see it - than I was expecting. Could you tell us if you believe it has grown to this size on it's own or do you think the other goldie nipping at him made it bigger?
iv seperated him from the other fish to aviod nipping and to decrease the stress he might of been getting from the nipping.

my partner said he thinks it looked like it emerged through the skin, it was a white bump to start off with (i thought it was the begining of white spot -not realiseing white spot was multipul salt grain type dashes all at once)

did you see anything that looked white and stringy coming from the sore? Was the white part more grainy or crusty looking, slimy looking, or cottony?
there are fluffy flakes of what i guess is skin around it ?
i think it looks like slimey fluff

Would you describe the sore as looking whitish pink, a medium pink, or more red/dark red?
we think it is a pinky colour (i have him sat by thetank while i answer these questions lol)
it looks more like the second picture only closer to the gills, about the same size if not a tiny bit bigger.and it doesnt seem really deep,it looks more like a surface wound!

hope these answers are the ones that help :D

thanks so much guys ! xx
 

newbiefishlover

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Apr 17, 2009
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oh yeah- i forgot to say, the last few days the moor thats in the main tank(with the wonky tail ) seems to just be hovering underneath the filter and not really swimming round. iv just fed them and h's not moved from under the filter at all?!
 

Kashta

Always Niko's fault.....
Jun 24, 2008
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the moor seems no differnt than normal, just a bit more 'floaty round' rather than swimming round,but thats only since seperating him!
no new spots or bumps have formed.
erm the next one- how do you mean slime coat?
his breathing seems the same as the other fish?
he hasnt been flashing or scraping himself against anything that i know of- he just swims/floats round the tank.
Nat, the slime coat is a layer of... well, it's "slime" or a mucoprotien "mucus" that the goldfish naturally produces which covers its scales as a protective coating against diseases and parasites. This excretion thickens as an immune response whenever the fish is stressed or something irritates the skin.

there are fluffy flakes of what i guess is skin around it ?
i think it looks like slimey fluff
You mentioned seeing something white around the edges of the wounded area which sounded like skin so that's why I asked about it. This exposed skin would look flaky (as you can see in the photos I posted above) and the slimey fluff should just be excess slimecoat you see surrounding the wound. What you described sounds okay but watch this area for anything that looks cottony or for the appearance of worms.

we think it is a pinky colour (i have him sat by thetank while i answer these questions lol)
it looks more like the second picture only closer to the gills, about the same size if not a tiny bit bigger.and it doesnt seem really deep,it looks more like a surface wound!
This is good. That pinkness is what healthy flesh looks like beneath the skin. Redness or inflammation here would indicate infection or that the wound has become ulcerated. Since this is a surface wound that doesn't go very deep, it should heal quickly. As it does this, you'll see the wound itself will get covered with slime .

oh yeah- i forgot to say, the last few days the moor thats in the main tank(with the wonky tail ) seems to just be hovering underneath the filter and not really swimming round. iv just fed them and h's not moved from under the filter at all?!
This is important to note because healthy goldfish are very active and they move around a lot. Your fish in the main tank isn't doing this, so that's a symptom which tells us that something may be wrong with him or her too. This fish is not acting normal and that bears close monitoring, as well

Overall, we've managed to (I think) eliminate some very serious ailments for the wounded fish. Healing will go slowly, but you've described nothing new developing yet for us to worry about.

Any new updates? Keep us posted!
 
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newbiefishlover

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Apr 17, 2009
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i just looked at the wound after reading your post, and it looks like it is healing, it doesnt look as deep as it did, and it is all covered in white/slime :D
and as far as i can see there is no cotton wool type white there either !


iv to go pick a tank up at the weekend (the right size)
so i can then transfer him in to the tank i have now until healed so he will have more room and the tank will be somewhat cleaner than what he is in now with no filter!

i was wondering though, when i get the larger tank that is 400 litres, and the current one is 80 litres ,what cycleing do i have to do?
and for how long ?!

thanks for being such a great help through this - i think my fish is really appriciating it haha x
 

Kashta

Always Niko's fault.....
Jun 24, 2008
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mel_20_20

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Sep 1, 2008
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Hang in the newbiefishlover, you are doing a really good job working so hard to take care of your goldies.:thm: It's obvious that you really care about your fish, and that you are going to be an awesome fishkeeper. We were all noobs at one point, lol.

With FlaringShutter and Kashta monitoring the situation and giving advice, you have the next best thing to having a vet in attendance.

Keep relying on Kashta and Flaringshutter; forget the folks at the fish store, these ladies have been keeping and taking care of goldies for years and years. I imagine that between the two of them, they have diagnosed and treated just about every possible illness or malady to which goldies are subject.

Aquariacentral is a great place for fishlovers. All the members of this forum are here for you, to support and encourage you. :)

Great job getting the right size tank for them. They will fare so much better and live longer, healthier, and happier lives. I've learned from these two ladies and others, goldies have so much personality and really become attached to their humans.

I'm pulling for you and your little friend.:)
 

newbiefishlover

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Apr 17, 2009
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thanks melody!
its great being anle to find so much help and support from people! my friends look at me as if im mad the way iv been talkin about fish ha ha ....
i have grown very attatched to them, not like any other fish i have had years ago, but i think it was because these all have their own little names where as the others were just callled fishy lol .

iv been looking to get a backdrop to brighten up the tank, and there was a DIY 3d one listed, so i thought i would check with you guys first , make sure the things ill be using will be safe for the fish,
as if i get it made this week before i pick the tank up at the weekend, i can cycle that in the tank too and get it 'fish friendly'!

i know some of the items are obvious, but i just copied and pasted the list !
1. Styrofoam
2. Aquarium safe silicone and a caulking gun
3. Sandpaper
4. Paint brush
5. Quikrete Hydraulic Water-Stop Instant Plug Cement
6. Large toothed knife
7. Fine Penknife
8. Small butane torch or a lighter.
9. Epoxy Resin
10. a lot of patience





 
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