Jesus H. Christ...the "Cyst" Like Bumps Have Returned...

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wesleydnunder

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Dec 11, 2005
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Gulf Coast Texas
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Mark
Hello Mark and thanks so much for your added assistance...

If the situation isn't bacterial and it is parasitical, how do I know the difference...and why do all the fish end up getting this symptom of the growths beneath the scales?

The factors, as I see it, are infinite and can range from anything having to do with something in my tap water supply, the exhausted carbon in my Aqueon filter media or the source I'm buying my fish from to something in their diet, the filters themselves housing some kind of parasites, something coming up the air lines to the bubble wands (as crazy as that sounds), the decorations giving off some kind of toxins (even though they are aquarium safe) or maybe something in the Prime I treat the water with....I just don't know anymore...
We can eliminate some of those:
It's doubtful that exhausted carbon, the prime (when dosed correctly), the air from the bubble wand or aquarium-safe tank decor are causing either bacterial infection or parisites.

You could be bringing a parisite and/or bacteria into your tank from the place you buy your fish. Most of the time proper quarantine will keep either infestation from occurring. However, once introduced into the tank, either one can be a royal pain to be rid of. Nets and other cleaning equipment can transfer bacteria and parisites to the other tanks.

For treatment of possible bacterial infections I've treated successfully with a combination of Mardel's Maracyn and Maracyn II. These together will combat gram positive and gram negative bacteria.

For parisitic infestations I've had success with metronidozole and praziquantrel.

Mark
 

Kaskade10729

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Original poster
Jun 16, 2013
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Once more, thank you very much Mark for your ongoing assistance...it's greatly appreciated sir.

Let me address some of these points you make below individually:

We can eliminate some of those:
It's doubtful that exhausted carbon, the prime (when dosed correctly), the air from the bubble wand or aquarium-safe tank decor are causing either bacterial infection or parisites.
Okay, thank you for putting my mind at ease about some of these factors; I know a few of them sounded off-the-wall and ridiculous but I had to throw them out there as possible causes. That said, I definitely dose Prime correctly (I have a 60 gallon tank and dose for the volume of the whole tank when doing water changes; so, in other words, before the fresh water goes in during a water change I pour in a CAP and ONE RUNG of the inside of the cap worth of Prime based on the bottle's instructions and what I was advised to do by Seachem themselves...one capful is good for 50 U.S. gallons, so because I have a 60, I do a cap and one rung worth...) and the decor in the tank was bought at Petsmarts/Petcos so they're definitely "aquarium safe."

THIS is what I think is going on moreso than anything else:

You could be bringing a parisite and/or bacteria into your tank from the place you buy your fish. Most of the time proper quarantine will keep either infestation from occurring. However, once introduced into the tank, either one can be a royal pain to be rid of. Nets and other cleaning equipment can transfer bacteria and parisites to the other tanks.
Let me ask you this: All of these goldfish -- even the ones I bought prior to these I have now that have passed away -- were purchased at a local Petsmart (I know, I know...but that is the ONLY local shop that even sells tropical and goldfish in my area and their selection is actually nice, with, most of the time, healthy-looking fantail specimens large and small) so could this have anything to do with these cysts that keep developing? The strange thing is though, Mark, is that the fish won't die concurrently with one another; they can go a year maybe two before developing these "internal cysts" that eventually rupture and kill them, so would the fish store be a factor at all? Wouldn't they all have come in to my tank being sick or infected already and kind of developed these issues together and passed away together? You see what I mean?


In other words, I'm wondering why, if the STORE I'm buying them from is the factor -- and I have suspected this all along, that perhaps Petsmart's breeding farm or supplier is sending them fish that already have a kind of "genetic preconditioning" to get these cysts because they're not cared for properly, etc. -- they each take their time "developing" these symptoms over very long periods...why does it take so long for the cysts to show themselves?

For treatment of possible bacterial infections I've treated successfully with a combination of Mardel's Maracyn and Maracyn II. These together will combat gram positive and gram negative bacteria.

For parisitic infestations I've had success with metronidozole and praziquantrel.

Mark
I have tried Maracyn and Maracyn II in the past for a bacterial infection outbreak in my previous tank but it didn't save the two fantails infected -- I still have some Maracyn left over, but if I wanted to try it again, can I administer it to the whole tank the infected fish is in now or do I HAVE to isolate her in another holding tank? Further, I was always told that it's better to do constant water changes to keep water super clean when a fish shows symptoms like this rather than dump medication into the water -- is this true? I have been attempting to keep the water incredibly clean so perhaps her cyst and wound will eventually heal but would I be okay dumping Maracyn in at this point?
 

wesleydnunder

Discus Addict
Staff member
Dec 11, 2005
2,752
164
66
Gulf Coast Texas
Real Name
Mark
Once more, thank you very much Mark for your ongoing assistance...it's greatly appreciated sir.

Let me address some of these points you make below individually:



Okay, thank you for putting my mind at ease about some of these factors; I know a few of them sounded off-the-wall and ridiculous but I had to throw them out there as possible causes. That said, I definitely dose Prime correctly (I have a 60 gallon tank and dose for the volume of the whole tank when doing water changes; so, in other words, before the fresh water goes in during a water change I pour in a CAP and ONE RUNG of the inside of the cap worth of Prime based on the bottle's instructions and what I was advised to do by Seachem themselves...one capful is good for 50 U.S. gallons, so because I have a 60, I do a cap and one rung worth...) and the decor in the tank was bought at Petsmarts/Petcos so they're definitely "aquarium safe."

THIS is what I think is going on moreso than anything else:



Let me ask you this: All of these goldfish -- even the ones I bought prior to these I have now that have passed away -- were purchased at a local Petsmart (I know, I know...but that is the ONLY local shop that even sells tropical and goldfish in my area and their selection is actually nice, with, most of the time, healthy-looking fantail specimens large and small) so could this have anything to do with these cysts that keep developing? The strange thing is though, Mark, is that the fish won't die concurrently with one another; they can go a year maybe two before developing these "internal cysts" that eventually rupture and kill them, so would the fish store be a factor at all? Wouldn't they all have come in to my tank being sick or infected already and kind of developed these issues together and passed away together? You see what I mean?


In other words, I'm wondering why, if the STORE I'm buying them from is the factor -- and I have suspected this all along, that perhaps Petsmart's breeding farm or supplier is sending them fish that already have a kind of "genetic preconditioning" to get these cysts because they're not cared for properly, etc. -- they each take their time "developing" these symptoms over very long periods...why does it take so long for the cysts to show themselves?



I have tried Maracyn and Maracyn II in the past for a bacterial infection outbreak in my previous tank but it didn't save the two fantails infected -- I still have some Maracyn left over, but if I wanted to try it again, can I administer it to the whole tank the infected fish is in now or do I HAVE to isolate her in another holding tank? Further, I was always told that it's better to do constant water changes to keep water super clean when a fish shows symptoms like this rather than dump medication into the water -- is this true? I have been attempting to keep the water incredibly clean so perhaps her cyst and wound will eventually heal but would I be okay dumping Maracyn in at this point?
OK, remember, the application of even the right medication won't save every fish...some are already too far gone. A dog with parvo can receive the right antibiotics to cure it but if it's too weakened and infected, it will almost always succumb.

Pretty much all of the fish we buy are stressed to some degree. Stress weakens the fish; some more than others. All fish won't necessarily show symptoms of an infection concurrently. I've seen a tank with ich where half the fish were infected and half showed no symptoms. Still, once a tank is infected you need to treat the whole tank. Any future additions should be quarantined for a minimum of 30 days in a separate tank and, if the new fish need treatment, the 30 day clock reset to zero once the disease has been cured.

Mark
 

Kaskade10729

AC Members
Original poster
Jun 16, 2013
130
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0
OK, remember, the application of even the right medication won't save every fish...some are already too far gone. A dog with parvo can receive the right antibiotics to cure it but if it's too weakened and infected, it will almost always succumb.

Pretty much all of the fish we buy are stressed to some degree. Stress weakens the fish; some more than others. All fish won't necessarily show symptoms of an infection concurrently. I've seen a tank with ich where half the fish were infected and half showed no symptoms. Still, once a tank is infected you need to treat the whole tank. Any future additions should be quarantined for a minimum of 30 days in a separate tank and, if the new fish need treatment, the 30 day clock reset to zero once the disease has been cured.

Mark
So what do you think I should do now? Should I continue regular water changes just to keep her area "clean" and step them up even more regularly?
 

wesleydnunder

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Staff member
Dec 11, 2005
2,752
164
66
Gulf Coast Texas
Real Name
Mark
Regular maintenance should continue. However, your tank is infected with something. It needs to be treated. Follow the directions for the med you use and if it calls for a span of time with no water replacement, do so. Is there any way you can post a pic of one of the cysts? If you can't get a decent shot of one while the fish is in the water, you can pull it and place it on some wet paper towels for the short time it will require to take the pic. After that you can put him back in the tank and it should be none the worse for the experience.

Mark
 

Kaskade10729

AC Members
Original poster
Jun 16, 2013
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Okay, but what about the "rumors" that doing water changes are most likely "better" than dropping medication in a tank? I have read that the adverse effects of medication, such as stripping the column of all its good bacteria, are not readily apparent...
 
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