Just researching and Starting, HELLO!! I need advice...

[romaric]

Hello all! I've wanted a tank for about a year now and I have finally started to research and discover this amazing world.

My dream tank would be a 20 gallon, with lots of amazing, live plants, some driftwood and a few fish. I know ebough now that fishless cycle might be the way to go. I have a few questions. I've researched and have gone to petco and I'm a bit confused....

is 10 gl better than 20 for a starter?

Should I buy a package tank, like a Tetra, to start?
IS this ok?

The guy at the store said, "fill tank, get things working, turn heater off...after two days, get goldfish to do a fish cycle for 4 weeks" IS THIS RIGHT? I have not read anything about a GOLDFISH cycle, and everything I research seems to point to a fishless cycle.

This is what I'm learning. Get a 20 gl tank for a beginner. Set everything up. I CAN start with live plants. The Petco guys told me NOT TO. So...insert my plants, fill the tank and cycle through 4 weeks.

From what I've read and what the Petco guys tell me, the advice seems to vary. Please help!

I Really do not want to harm any fish, and everyone in this forum seems so well educated.

Can you please give some advice/tips? I just found the Forum today and want to do this right. I'm ready to go out ASAP and start my project.

So excited!!

Some dream tanks that I hope mine could turn into.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sampukko/106304164/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sixty9/212810373/

I know this is long way away and comes from YEARS of experience, but one day, I want to get there and these are just beautiful.

THANKS!

romaric.

 

[Phil22]

Hi and welcome to the site. My first advice would be to read the sticky thread at the top of this forum on cycling a freshwater tank. That should give you a good start. Please consider a fishless cycle, versus the goldfish route.

From a tank standpoint, most will tell you to go as large as you can afford/have space for. Not for bragging rights, but larger tanks are easier to maintain and more forgiving. If I get lazy, my 55 gallon can go 10 days without much of a nitrate spike...my 20 on the other hand can't go more than a week.

Try to decide what kind of fish you like and what fish are compatible. It may help you decide what size tank you will need. For example, some fish will do better in a 20 gallon long versus a 20 gallon high. Don't believe the minumum tank requirements posted at most pet chain stores. Check here first.

I tend to prefer buying equipment separately, versus a kit, but maybe that's just me.

There is a lot of info the members here can provide. I'd suggest taking it step by step.
Read the sticky on cycling, ask any questions.
Decide what kind of fish you like, ask us about the best stocking plan based on those fish.
Decide on a stocking plan, and ask us what size tank would be best, or how you might need to adjust the plan based on a size of tank you can afford/fit.
Then you can ask about filters, heaters, lighting, etc.

I can't give you any help on live plants, but plenty of folks here can.

By the way, local pet/fish stores, do offer advice on set up, stocking, etc. Keep in mind, most of these folks are out to sell you stuff. Check in here, before you start spending money.

 

[romaric]

Hi Phill22, thanks for replying so quickly! I've been here waiting, as I'm so eager to start!

I read the sticky about cycling, it's awesome. Thanks, I'll def. go the non fish route.

I think I'll start with a 20 gallon long.
I think maybe a kit is in order, as I'm just abeginner and it might be easier?

Though, I plan on REALLY getting into this, so maybe starting out with seperate bits and pieces is better? I have patience and some money put aside for this project, so any other advice on sets vs. seprate items would be great.

If I do go with inividual items, any advice on products to buy, brand names for heaters, filters, etc. would be awesome.

As for fish, basically, I'd love to start with plant life first. I am found of the black mollys. But, basically, I'd love to start with a 20 long and some natuaral plant life and then get fish to move around that. I love all animals and any fish would be ok, really, as long as they are happy :headbang2:

THANKS!

 

[Star_Rider]

you do realize that the planted tank is a whole other ballgame....right?

the light you get with most tanks will not be sufficient for most plants.

you will need approx 2 watts per gallon to grow some desirable plants.

the fixture you get will probably supply less than 1 wpg(watt per gallon)
if you set up the tank as a planted allow a few weeks to get established you will not see a cycle..the plants wil consume the ammonia(assuming the tank is atleast moderately planted,)
I have planted tanks and I like the way the plants help to stabilize the tanks.

 

[Phil22]

Ok, do you have a petsmart in your area? If so, you can go to petsmart online, look up the equipment you want, print off the online price, and take that into the petsmart..they'll honor the online price. Can generally save a few bucks. I don't know, maybe petco does this as well (?)

Try that with the tank kit, and compare to a separate tank, heater and filter (and whatever else comes with the kit). Keep in mind, that most here will recommend more filtration than something rated for up to 20 gallons. Given you are interested in a 20 long, you may want to consider two filters (rated for 20 gallon) versus one rated for 40, for example. It's great back up incase one goes bad (although, I've never been in a situation where I felt the fish were at risk over a bad filter). The point is, you can't have too much filtration. I'd probably recommend you look at AquaClear or Penguin hang on back filters. I have the Penguin 150 bio wheel hang on back for my 20. Again, seems to be working well.

Price a heater (submersible is recommended...I have a Visi-Therm Stealth 75 for my 20...it's rated for up to 25 gallons). Some might recommend going up one level to the Stealth 100 rated for 30 gallons..but so far my 75 is doing well.

You'll need to do some research/ask questions in the plant forum/section about lighting, substrate, fertilizing, CO systems etc. I have no experience here. They might even suggest another form of filtration as well.

I don't know what your budget is, but realize it adds up quickly. Don't forget about the price of plants, higher lighting requirement, decor, the price of fish, food, water conditioner, a gravel vac, liquid test kit (API is recommended - strip test kits are not recommended) a net, etc.

My son's 55 turned out to be about 30% more than I budgeted...poor research on my part (plus he just had to have the expensive light house and wrecked ship!).

You're asking all the right questions...keep asking, we'll be here.

 

[romaric]

Hi Star Rider

yeah, I'm starting to figure out that a planted tank is more work, a totally different responsibility.

But I'm up for it!

Since you have planted tanks, any simple advice? Should I go for individual items?

Looks like need a 40 watt light. cool, I can get that.

Any plants that are easier to maintain at the start?

Thank you!

 

[silentskream]

if you're going to go for a planted tank i would DEFINITELY get things separately. if you buy a kit you'd have to purchase another light set anyway, and that's usually the most expensive thing, so you might as well just get it all separately.
do a google search for "silent cycle." you may still want to go with a fishless cycle, but i think it would be a good read so you can at least understand how it works.

the easiest plant i've ever come across is a java fern. i took my plant out if the dirt and into a water filled bucket in a closet for 2 weeks, then brought it out and the thing was still bright and green and perfectly healthy!

good luck!

 

[romaric]

Phil, silentskream, thank you.

I found a great local store nearby. NOT a petco, and I'm going to hop in there and ask qustions too. Making notes from all your comments and they are VERY useful, thank you.
Phil, good idea and price comparison...and Silent, you might be right...if I'm going to change the lighting system ANYWAY, I might just start with that, instead of a kit. Also, thanks for the liquid test kit advice. I will go with this too. Your son has a 55 gl tank! awesome!!

I have put money aside for this for a long time, so I'm god to go.

Also, thank you for the 'java fern". I'll look into that. I found this site called ADA. Pretty amazing stuff there.

Another question...is the generic pebbles they sell in bags ok, or should I try to go with sand, gravel, more "real life" types of soil and rocks.

I def. want driftwood in there. IS sand or grave better for this and for plants??

Basically, I'm taking notes from you guys and walking into this new store and saying "well, this is what my friends do, and they're wicked talented at it"!!!!

:grinyes:

I'll let ya know how it goes. Just waiting for lunch to arrive then I'm off to the store.

thanks guys!

benny.

ps...maybe pick up a book or two while I'm there?

 

[Star_Rider]

romaric, planted tanks are not difficult if you get some basic understanding.
if you want to set up a tank with live plants what will help with your cycle..you should consider buying items seperately.
the light may be more expesnive than the tank..but then tere are DIY set up for most.
I wouls suggest 2 wpg for a start..this will accomodate many of the plants you will want to grow.
wpg is not the best measure of light but it's easy to use as a guideline.
there are low light plants but they grow slowly and their nutrient up take is slower.

@2wpg you won't have to have CO2 but you can DIY it or since the tank is relatively small you can get one of the hagen systems very easy to use (can use home formula)
co2 is beneficial and there has been much success with co2 in med-low light.



http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+8981&pcatid=8981


substrate can be gravel. I prefer flourite or ecocomplete.

I fond that with these substrates the plant are pretty easy to anchor.

plants ..
low light:
anubias
java fern,
java moss
some cryptocoryne.
plants at 2 wpg opens the list up more

swords
anacharis(elodea)
wisteria
watersprite
cabomba
frill
some of these are nutrient sponges and feed from the water column,
swords are root feeders and IMO benefit with a good substrate but you can use plant tabs.
if you want to learn more on planted tanks there are plenty of links and there is aplanted tank forum here.

 

[Phil22]

Hope your lunch shopping goes well. Someone will come on and give you some advice on the substrate.
I bought a few books at my local fish store. Frankly, I think you're better off reading through this forum. I'd put this forum up against any of the books I've read.
Also, search through the plant section here. Many have asked in the past about good beginner plants, substrate to use, etc.
There are also a number of threads about soaking driftwood so it doesn't leach tannins, etc. Trust me, it's all here.
Well, regarding my son, it kept him from the daily requests for a puppy. I've got nothing against dogs, but I'd much rather help with water changes, than walk a dog in the snow...if you know what I mean.