LET'S MAKE an ANGEL

PopPopsfish said:
We will continue this project hopefully sometime mid July , we have been super busy preparing for the busy season . [...]
I did not forget as soon as we can come up for air, we will make this a priority.
Click to expand...

Cool. I look forward to seeing this thread develop again. I'm subscribed for sure!
I love your Green Leopard angels.
 
great idea, how do i subscribe!
 
I'm new to Angels now so I've subscribed to this thread. Can't wait to see what happens!
 
We have about 20 prs. now and I've begun to notice some patterns and idiosyncrasies. First, the further from nature we get with crosses the weaker and smaller the fry. Our survival rates from free swimming to peas avg. 90%+ with stds. but fall off quickly to only about 10% by the time we get to super veil marbles and koi. Typically we see anywhere from 300-800 eggs per spawn and our fish spawn at very different frequencies.

The Half Blacks are our 10 day clocks. Every 10 days there will be 7-800 eggs on their stick. The double blacks are close to 12 days between spawns with 4-500 eggs and the Peruvians are 20 days and about 300 eggs per spawn. By contrast the koi will produce over 1000 eggs but only spawn sporadically, maybe once every 4-6 weeks. Until recently our gold marble super veils were also irregular spawners but they've always produced large numbers of eggs.

Among our other pairs we also have pearls, zebra and blush super veils, golds, silvers, several partial blues, lt. and dk. marbles. we're just feeling confident enough to begin trying to "fix" some of the more desirable traits that we've seen and would love to know more about the angel genetics software that you mentioned.

I have some albinos and reds that are just beginning to pair but I'm particularly interested in the blues that you mentioned. Also been hunting about for blue ghosts that I've seen pics of but not found anywhere in the states as yet.

Allowing the parents to raise the young has been a heck of a lot easier than pulling the eggs to hatch ourselves. The frustrating part however was watching the inexperienced parents eat one spawn after another until they finally started to figure out what they were supposed to do.

One particularly persistent issue has been the poor fertilizing by some of our males...particularly the marbles and koi. Anybody got suggestions on how to put them up to the task? We feed a custom blend of fresh high quality flake with daily suppliments of blood worms, skeeter larvae along with frozen mysis shrimp. Water changes are 25% 3X a week and spray bars are used on the returns to simulate rain anytime we get a pressure change. We've also started mixing consistant breeders with slow ones that share the same sumps to try stimulating them thru hormone exsposure.

Many thanks as always to these forums and Pop Pop in particular for past help and advise. This looks like a great thread! Where do you find the time?
 
I love this thread! Thank you! Your website is spectacular pops!!!! I am deff. a subscriber!!! I will be interested to see the fry from male 6, whatever female he ends up with, he is gorgeous!!!! I guess if I were to pick a female it'd be lady 5. Good luck with this and thanks for sharing and involving us!!!!
 
foolishfish said:
We have about 20 prs. now and I've begun to notice some patterns and idiosyncrasies. First, the further from nature we get with crosses the weaker and smaller the fry. Our survival rates from free swimming to peas avg. 90%+ with stds. but fall off quickly to only about 10% by the time we get to super veil marbles and koi. Typically we see anywhere from 300-800 eggs per spawn and our fish spawn at very different frequencies. We find that the most common cause of death in Angel fry is flukes. Since we started treating the fry for flukes ,our death toll has decreased over 60% . We are now able to raise 80% of the fry.

The Half Blacks are our 10 day clocks. Every 10 days there will be 7-800 eggs on their stick. The double blacks are close to 12 days between spawns with 4-500 eggs and the Peruvians are 20 days and about 300 eggs per spawn. By contrast the koi will produce over 1000 eggs but only spawn sporadically, maybe once every 4-6 weeks. Until recently our gold marble super veils were also irregular spawners but they've always produced large numbers of eggs. Just a suggestion, try out crossing to increase egg count and to strengthen your lines. (be sure to give your pairs time off.)

Among our other pairs we also have pearls, zebra and blush super veils, golds, silvers, several partial blues, lt. and dk. marbles. we're just feeling confident enough to begin trying to "fix" some of the more desirable traits that we've seen and would love to know more about the angel genetics software that you mentioned. PM me and we can work something out.

I have some albinos and reds that are just beginning to pair but I'm particularly interested in the blues that you mentioned. Also been hunting about for blue ghosts that I've seen pics of but not found anywhere in the states as yet. Sounds like you are getting the hang of it , I also see a patter en here. ( these fish can be addicting.)

Allowing the parents to raise the young has been a heck of a lot easier than pulling the eggs to hatch ourselves. The frustrating part however was watching the inexperienced parents eat one spawn after another until they finally started to figure out what they were supposed to do.
It can be disappointing when you get your hopes up and the pair just gobbles up the fry. Patients , is key when breeding Angels . There are a few things that have worked for us when dealing with an inexperienced pair. We have removed the female and left the fry with Dad , adding wild blood also is a pretty sure way to get parent raising pairs. Having stock that came from a pair that raises their young.We purposely select fry from pair that have a good record of fry raising. Just hang in there and keep trying new things give your experiments time and things will come naturally.

One particularly persistent issue has been the poor fertilizing by some of our males...particularly the marbles and koi. Anybody got suggestions on how to put them up to the task? We feed a custom blend of fresh high quality flake with daily suppliments of blood worms, skeeter larvae along with frozen mysis shrimp. Water changes are 25% 3X a week and spray bars are used on the returns to simulate rain anytime we get a pressure change. We've also started mixing consistant breeders with slow ones that share the same sumps to try stimulating them thru hormone exsposure. What are your TDS's ? Hard water can decrease the amount of sperm that is able to penetrate the eggs. Feed them a super high protein diet during spawning (live food works wonders,) we raise our own red worms just for cases like this. We use Almond leaves to get stubborn pairs to spawn along with most of the things you are currently doing.

Many thanks as always to these forums and Pop Pop in particular for past help and advise. This looks like a great thread! Where do you find the time?
Click to expand...
Anytime, thank you for sharing your passion with us, you must make time in order to be successful at this.
 
What an interesting and informative thread! I was wondering how I missed it, then I saw it started last year. :)
 
As always your help has been invaluable. Since your suggestions we've made a few changes and begun noticing improvements already. Although I don't have a TDS meter I did accomplish the following;
- Added almond leaves
- Added live black worms to daily feedings
- Moved non-spawners into divided tanks with good breeders
(hoping the hormones effect the slow pokes)
- Joined TAS
A couple of non-producing prs. have eggs for the 1st time. Especially gratifying is a pr. of highly colored Koi that have had me talkin' to myself.

You mentioned flukes (gill flukes I'm guessin'?), and that you started treating for them. I was just wondering what or how you accomplish that?

Checked out the genetics database and was tickled to find out that what I thought were mutts were actually bonafide genotypes.

As always thanks for all of your help and encouragement. - J
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom