Little guy with dropsy- euthanize?

[mel_20_20]

In cases of bloat, due to constipation, fasting can be very helpful. In true dropsy, with pineconing of the scales I don't think it's as much of an aid to fast them, though I would try to maybe feed something with less protein in it as protein is hard on kidneys if they are impaired. Maybe some nuked english pea, or some other veggie that you might be able to get him to eat.

 

[sora1600]

In cases of bloat, due to constipation, fasting can be very helpful. In true dropsy, with pineconing of the scales I don't think it's as much of an aid to fast them, though I would try to maybe feed something with less protein in it as protein is hard on kidneys if they are impaired. Maybe some nuked english pea, or some other veggie that you might be able to get him to eat.

my plakat was pineconing. the top half mostly. i just didn't feed him and it worked for me but i guess it depends.

 

[kyryah]

Dropsy is kidney failure, and not a disease in of itself, but a manifestation of an underlying issue. Parasites, bacterial infection, poor water quality, poor nutrition, viral or fungal infection, and genetics can all be a cause.

It is difficult to diagnose the true issue, which is why dropsy is very rarely successfully cured.

I would do what you think is best. Personally, if it was my fish, I would euthanize. I have successfully treated many ailments, and have in fact had a fish come back from dropsy. Two months later he dropsied again, and I could not pull him through. Sometimes it is kinder to just end the misery.

Kristina

 

[halfmoonplakat]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to post and offer your advice/opinions/suggestions..they were all very much appreciated.
Also, he took a little spirulina flake today at feeding time, but still acting lethargic, colour is still pale
And Mel, do you know where I could get some metronidazole?
I heard you can find it in Jungle Parasite Clear tabs along with Praziquantel, can I use these [Jungle Parasite Clear tabs] to dose my tank?

 

[mel_20_20]

"....Dropsy, I know you know, is very serious. If caught early, sometimes the underlying infection can be treated before irreversible organ damage occurs.

I've never successfully treated dropsy myself, though I've only had two cases and that was very early in my fishkeeping experience and didn't know much about fish illness and disease.

I've read many many threads dealing with dropsy, and most often things don't work out well. I've seen cases of improvement in the condition of the fish, restoring some quality of life and extending the life of the fish, only to have it return in a few months, but hopefully your little guy can be helped.

I've read a post that Lupin made in the case of a sick goldfish that I think would be a good protocol or treatment plan to try to help your little guy. Here is the suggestion Lupin made in this thread:

******************************************************

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2268393#post2268393


"...you do need to use metronidazole though which is the best way to treat dropsy. Epsom salt may work but not as effectively as sodium chloride does. Sodium chloride should be able to enhance osmoregulation and minimize fluid retention as much as possible. Dose 0.3% solution of salt and avoid ones containing ferrous cyanide or yellow prussiate.

1. Add a teaspoon per gallon first which is equivalent to 0.1%.
2. Repeat step 1 after 12 hours.
3. Repeat step 2. Same time interval.

Do not forget to redose salt per water volume changed when you make a water change.

What are your pH, KH and GH? You'd need to push the hardness levels by 150 or more. Use the API liquid drops to test accurately. Calcium chloride by Kent can be used to adjust the hardness levels temporarily to give your fish some relief from this issue as it also encourages proper osmoregulation."
Lupin


********************************************************

Try to get some Metro and start treatment. I like to keep the water pristine, perfect, absolutely pure, so I do a water change, then dose, then in 24 hours do a water change and dose and keep this up until the full recommended course of antibiotic treatment has been completed.

I believe I would also add a little Epsom salts in addition to the table salt, following Lupin's guidelines as quoted above. Hopefully the table salt and epsom salt will help draw off excess fluid and, along with some Calcium, help keep electrolytes in balance.

If you don't have the test kits for hardness, or the Kent's Calcium Chloride, I would get a calcium tablet, a regular calcium suplemental tablet and break it in half and put about half of it in his water along with the meds and salts. You could use Tums to add calcium. If he's in a hospital tank of a gallon or less I would do half a Tums tab.

I don't remember the proportions on the Epsom salt, but I'd go with Lupin's recommendation on the NaCl (regular table salt), and maybe 1/4 teaspon of Epsom salts. (It may be that a bit more is better, but since I can't remember the exact amount I'd err on the side of caution.)

I hope if anyone has better ideas they will pitch in on this. Chris, he may not make it. If his condition continues to worsen, euthanasia may be necessary. I would try to get some eugenol, (clove oil), to have on hand just in case.

I hope this helps. Please keep us posted.

That's pretty much the same thing Kristina says. I agree that this likely will not have a happy ending.

I'm not one that believes in letting a fish or any other animal suffer when there's no hope. If, however, on the slim chance that this is an internal bacterial infection that hasn't caused irreversible organ failure, you want to try for a couple of days with Lupin's treatment plan to give him a chance, it might be worth a try.

I certainly wouldn't allow him to continue if you see him suffering.

One thing to remember is that if he gets weak he may have a hard time swimming to the top for a breath of air. He needs to have something in there near the top for him to rest on, or else lower the water level so he doesn' have to swim very far.

I still say that you should get some clove oil and read up on the procedure. You don't want to find yourself having to make this decision late at night without the necessary things.

Again, Chris, I'm so sorry your poor little guy is sick.

 

[mel_20_20]

I ordered some straight Metronidazole from Petmountain.com, but I'm not sure if you can find it at Petsmart or Petco, or another pet chain. You might try to call a lfs if one is open on Sunday.

Yes, Metro is in Jungle Parasite Clear, but I don't know if the other ingredients would be too harsh for him.

I know Jungle Fungus Clear states that it is good for dropsy. Fungus clear has Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone, both antibiotics, and also has potassium dichromate for fungus.

Jungle Labs specifically states that Fungus Clear helps dropsy, so you might want to try that.

Either of those two products could be worth a try. As Kyryah, Kristina, says, this could be parasitic or water quality or genetic. I know you keep your fish in excellent water conditions, so bacterial and/ or parasitic infection, or genetic problems may be the cause. It's a guess really as to which one of the Jungle Labs products would be best.

The fact is, however, those two products may be the only ones that you can find readily available, as I know that Walmart does carry them, and if you have an all-night Walmart you could run up there to get some. If anything could help him... time is of the essence.

 

[BettaFishMommy]

i've had to deal with dropsy once on a betta back in my early days of fishkeeping and the betta ended up passing away due to my un-education at the time. one symptom i found very unique to this case was that the fish would stay in a 45 degree angle with the mouth just breaking the water surface and would float like that and then all of a sudden do a herky jerky swim forward, then float some more.

you could try the metro if it seems there is a chance for recovery, but as others mentioned, the betta could be prone to dropsy for the rest of its life.

i personally would euthanize if the fish looks like it is in pain/really uncomfortable/not improving despite treatment being administered. i know, it's a sad thing to think about and an even sadder thing to do, but we must remember that the creatures in our care must not suffer.

 

[halfmoonplakat]

Thanks everyone for your advice...I've decided to try and treat first on the chance that this is an "internal bacterial infection that hasn't caused irreversible organ failure", as Mel said. If he still isn't doing too well, I'll euthanize.
Strangely, his colour has deepened in patches, but he is still acting lethargic/hanging near the top of the tank.

 

[Ratlova30]

You can get Pimafix, it's a antibiotic. Hopefully it's not too late.

 

[halfmoonplakat]

Okay, so I fasted him today.
My earlier comment on his colour returning- nada, 'twas just the lighting unfortunately. Did a wc on him, with meds as well.
He is still pineconing heavily, colour still pale.
When I did the wc on him, he seemed too weak to move, kind of swimming on his side like SBD (Swim Bladder Disorder)...I observed him more closely for a little while after that, and even with no current, he seemed to have difficulty staying upright. He's still trying to swim a tiny bit though, but mostly acting sluggish and hanging around the top. Pics to follow soon

Also:
His breathing seems to be very, very heavy- he doesn't have much energy- floating at a 45 degree angle (as in on his side), rather than the 45 degree angle with his head tilted up/down.
His colour seems less pale.

Dropsy sure hit him hard, and fast

Praying he will recover..