Looking for some advice, considering a planted tank

[SidtheMonkey]

Thanks Sid, this is really helpful! I think the filter cartridge he showed me was a 2 - in - 1, with carbon in the middle and your "mechanical filter" on the outside. I don't know much about filter media. The tank I have now is just a biological filter. If not Carbon, then what do you suggest?
Also, they told me its better to not use treated tap - water anymore. I always suspected this, but can you confirm?

PS From my reading I gather it is not really a great idea to cycle a planted tank before adding fish in, because the plants need the fish waste for food. Is this correct? Do you think it would be safe to set it up and add my current fish family over to it immediately? Or wait a period of time? I figure I should atleast wait, no matter what, to add the NEW fish in.

What kind of filter did they recommend? I'm not current on newer ones.

But you want all the biological media/filtration you can get. It is GOOD! It's usually sponges in power filters, or other media with loads of surface area.

I've always cycled with a few hardy fish and as many plants as I could fit in the tank/the plants I wanted in my aquascape. And tried to use at least some fast-growing plants.

If you already have filter media from your current tank (you should) you can add that to your new filter...hopefully...and that will kickstart your cycle in a big way. I had done that for yrs...started with filter media from another tank, popped a few fish in right away, plants....and no major danger spikes at all.

Cant you just move your old filter over to the new tank? If you dont want to use the old filter in the new tank (is it not enought gal per hr for that tank?), I would put the old filter on the new tank, add all the old fish, and also put the new filter on it. That will seed the new filter and support the fish with the old filter. Use a good bit of water from the old tank and I dont think you'll even have to cycle the tank.

And dont panic when you get a coating of brown algae...it's fine and a couple of ottos will clean that up in a day or 2.

 

[tbirdie]

updated:er updated that last message, didnt mean to post again

 

[H2Ogal]

PS From my reading I gather it is not really a great idea to cycle a planted tank before adding fish in, because the plants need the fish waste for food. Is this correct? Do you think it would be safe to set it up and add my current fish family over to it immediately? Or wait a period of time? I figure I should atleast wait, no matter what, to add the NEW fish in.

You can cycle a planted tank using straight ammonia, fish food, a dead shrimp ... All you're doing is adding ammonia, or something that will decay and produce ammonia, in order to start the bacterial activity. There's also a technique called "silent cycle" in which a tank is planted heavily with fast-growing species right at the beginning (and "fed" with ammonia, fish food, etc.). Done right, the plants consume ammonia and nitrites so quickly that tests will consistently show 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites — no spikes — and once nitrates appear, the cycle is considered complete. With a silent cycle, the tank can be fully stocked immediately. (That's the thinking, anyway. Personally, I'd rather wait until the cycle is complete.)

If you transfer your current filter media and substrate to the new tank, however, it should be immediately cycled, and your existing fish can go right in. I would wait a while before adding new stock and do so a bit at a time. As I understand it, the bacteria colony you will be transferring from the old tank is large enough to handle the existing bioload and needs to increase as you add fish.

 

[Dr. Awkward]

There's a pretty good Walstad explainer on aquariumwiki.com but I can't get it to open for me right now for some reason. She also has a book which I highly recommend if you understand a little high school chemistry.

Basically, you put down a layer of garden soil and a handful of crushed coral, cover that with a layer of small gravel and plant your tank, just be careful not to agitate the layers when you add water. You can add fish the same day. She recommends low-medium lighting with some natural light from a window if possible. Things are a little crazy for the first few weeks. Lots of tannins leech out of the soil but that's okay, you can do water changes to get rid of them if you don't want brown water. The substrate bubbles for awhile and you do get some algae but that goes away fast. Also, if you choose to run a filter you'll need to de-clog it often for the first several weeks because you'll have bigger chuncks of stuff floating around. That also goes away eventually.

The reason all this works is the soil layer. It provides carbon for your plants and bacteria. I've actually removed all the biomedia from my tank because the plants use all the ammonia my fish produce. Ferts come from the extra fish food. I usually feed about 2-3 times what my fish can eat. I also use floating plants as she recommends. I also added more snails to the tank to break down waste (floating chunks I was talking about) even more but shrimp will do the same thing.

 

[tbirdie]

What kind of filter did they recommend? I'm not current on newer ones.

But you want all the biological media/filtration you can get. It is GOOD! It's usually sponges in power filters, or other media with loads of surface area.

I've always cycled with a few hardy fish and as many plants as I could fit in the tank/the plants I wanted in my aquascape. And tried to use at least some fast-growing plants.

If you already have filter media from your current tank (you should) you can add that to your new filter...hopefully...and that will kickstart your cycle in a big way. I had done that for yrs...started with filter media from another tank, popped a few fish in right away, plants....and no major danger spikes at all.

Cant you just move your old filter over to the new tank? If you dont want to use the old filter in the new tank (is it not enought gal per hr for that tank?), I would put the old filter on the new tank, add all the old fish, and also put the new filter on it. That will seed the new filter and support the fish with the old filter. Use a good bit of water from the old tank and I dont think you'll even have to cycle the tank.

And dont panic when you get a coating of brown algae...it's fine and a couple of ottos will clean that up in a day or 2.

The filter I am using is the one that came with this other 6.5 bookshelf aquarium. Here is a snippet from the review of the tank, talking about the filter (i didnt write it):

It's some kind of Asian knockoff of a Tetra Whisper 10 filter that probably violates a patent or two, and that has a few consequences for consumers:

There's no way I'm aware of to get replacement cartidges, although I've seen other common brand's cartidges that are *almost* the same size.

It doesn't come with any kind of biofilter sponge. I bought a biosponge separately and cut it to size for this filter.

The filter itself is quite large for such a small tank--about the same size as my Whisper 10 filter. It's attractive though, with a semi-transparent, smoked-plastic color, and a stylishly rounded top.
​

That being said, mine came with a sponge... and that's what I use for the filter. So maybe I am doing my "bio filtering" wrong. I thought all you needed was a sponge. The tank does have a substantial water flow control. It can be noisey sometimes, but usually I just shake it around a bit. I know that i had it turned down almost all the way for my betta. I have it at about 40% now that... he's gone. I imagine I could use it in a bigger tank. But I didn't know. I heard that a lot of surface disturbance is bad for plants because it depletes the CO2. So I just wanted to make sure I had a filter that was.... managing the water flow and filtering properly. I figured I needed more than just 1 sponge that I rinse in a bowl of aquarium water once a week. Plus.. I was hoping a new filter might lessen the maintenance time a bit.. IE not having to clean it once a week or every two weeks.

So I should use as much water from the old tank that I can? I noticed I've got some.. cephalopods in my current tank. I wonder if that's a bad idea to transfer over water with them in there?

and... thank you so much!!!

 

[tbirdie]

Basically, you put down a layer of garden soil and a handful of crushed coral, cover that with a layer of small gravel and plant your tank, just be careful not to agitate the layers when you add water. You can add fish the same day. She recommends low-medium lighting with some natural light from a window if possible. Things are a little crazy for the first few weeks. Lots of tannins leech out of the soil but that's okay, you can do water changes to get rid of them if you don't want brown water. The substrate bubbles for awhile and you do get some algae but that goes away fast. Also, if you choose to run a filter you'll need to de-clog it often for the first several weeks because you'll have bigger chuncks of stuff floating around. That also goes away eventually.

Ack! I suddenly feel very very out of my league. I had just planned on using... gravel lol. Oh noes.
update: Deep breaths, I will get this yet. Sounds like the most important thing is the right lighting, 2watts/gallon, and a good soil/fertilizer underneath the gravel. Geez I am really excited!

 

[Dr. Awkward]

Don't worry, you can grow lots of good stuff with gravel! You just have to make sure you have a good biofilter like the others said and be ready to dose ferts if needed. I mentioned the Walstad method because it's so low maintenance.

Also, I think the glass cats will be okay in a 20 gallon but a bigger tank is better for them because they are so delicate.

 

[SidtheMonkey]

Ack! I suddenly feel very very out of my league. I had just planned on using... gravel lol. Oh noes.
update: Deep breaths, I will get this yet. Sounds like the most important thing is the right lighting, 2watts/gallon, and a good soil/fertilizer underneath the gravel. Geez I am really excited!

Just gravel works fine...but if you are going to follow Walsted's method, then I'd do it "by the book." Every bit. Otherwise you could run into trouble.

Me, I'm not putting potting soil in my tanks. Never needed it.

 

[captaincaveman9]

A few points, a cycled tank is just fine for planted too. they will absorb what they can. You may need to dose trace elements and such, but you wont know that until after you have the plants you want established. Before you choose your plants you need to know the wattage of your lighting so you know to choose low to high light plants. if you are using a light that came with the tank, it's safe to assume it's a low light setup.

ok answer to question 1... many low light plants will need very little care. Some will soak up more waste material from the fish faster than others. My first plants were wisteria and amazon sword. The amazon sword grew MUCH slower, because it is a root feeder, so root tabs may be needed to keep the plat bigger and greener. The wisteria, though I planted it will remover nutrients directly from the water as well as any roots in the substrate. the only problem I had with wisteria, is I have to keep trimming it back often (once a week)

2) The 20 gallon long would be great for planed

3) Your current stocking level and the wanted new additions should be fine, but I wouldn't add any more to that. Although, the glass/ ghost cats may get a little big for the setup, I would suggest more rasboras

4) The equipment is fine, if you've been running the same filter (even if it has charcoal) for a few months, then the charcoal will be saturated and wont absorb anymore goodies the plants need and will essentially be just another biological filter. If getting a new filter, then try to avoid charcoal

5) crypts (come in red and green), Wisteria, Water Sprite, java fern. all are relatively low light plants, and the only thing you will need to do is trim the excess plant growth back every so often

 

[SidtheMonkey]

The filter I am using is the one that came with this other 6.5 bookshelf aquarium. Here is a snippet from the review of the tank, talking about the filter (i didnt write it):

It's some kind of Asian knockoff of a Tetra Whisper 10 filter that probably violates a patent or two, and that has a few consequences for consumers:

There's no way I'm aware of to get replacement cartidges, although I've seen other common brand's cartidges that are *almost* the same size.

It doesn't come with any kind of biofilter sponge. I bought a biosponge separately and cut it to size for this filter.

The filter itself is quite large for such a small tank--about the same size as my Whisper 10 filter. It's attractive though, with a semi-transparent, smoked-plastic color, and a stylishly rounded top.
​

That being said, mine came with a sponge... and that's what I use for the filter. So maybe I am doing my "bio filtering" wrong. I thought all you needed was a sponge. The tank does have a substantial water flow control. It can be noisey sometimes, but usually I just shake it around a bit. I know that i had it turned down almost all the way for my betta. I have it at about 40% now that... he's gone. I imagine I could use it in a bigger tank. But I didn't know. I heard that a lot of surface disturbance is bad for plants because it depletes the CO2. So I just wanted to make sure I had a filter that was.... managing the water flow and filtering properly. I figured I needed more than just 1 sponge that I rinse in a bowl of aquarium water once a week. Plus.. I was hoping a new filter might lessen the maintenance time a bit.. IE not having to clean it once a week or every two weeks.

So I should use as much water from the old tank that I can? I noticed I've got some.. cephalopods in my current tank. I wonder if that's a bad idea to transfer over water with them in there?

and... thank you so much!!!

I would invest in a very versatile, flexible filter. LIke I said, I can add all sorts of media/amendments to my filter boxes....we have very soft water where I live and I usually add some nylon stocking with some calcium carbonate in it to help stabilize the pH. I put it between the sponges in the box....I usually add more sponges too....like I said, the more bio-filtration the better.

I use Aqua Clear filters. They are one you could consider and they're not expensive. They are also very quiet if you make sure they are level. Ver very easy to clean too...I just squeeze out the sponges "in the water I've vaccumed out," and put 'em back in the filter box. This gets rid of most of the particulates (like poop) but keeps most of the beneficial bacteria.

If your current filter is 'just a sponge' filter, then I'm not sure it's enough for the fish you want to keep.

On another note: you have octopuses in your tank?! Those are cephalopods. ;-) So I'm not sure what you mean.