low to moderate plants... suggestions?

OnyxFishies

OnyxFishies

Fish Nut
Aug 29, 2004
139
0
0
51
Gulfport, MS
I've got a couple of questions for you more knowledgeable and experienced aquarium plant growers out there (yup, I'm a newbie!).

What sort of light should I use?
Am I on the right track?

My plans:
I want to have a lightly to moderately planted tank, but I want the plants to grow and be healthy. I don't feel the need to be able to grow plants like crazy (yet.. maybe the plant bug that bit me has a slow acting effect! :) ) I don't like the expense of CO2 injection, and my research on DIY CO2 is that it takes lots of time and tweaking. (Not that I'm adverse to tweaking by any means, but time is a different story)

My tank now:
29Gal with moderate fish load. (2 dwarf gouramis, 6 neons, 4 corys and a Dojo loach (weather loach). The corys are young, about 3/4 of an inch.)
I've got two crypts (crypt. wendtii) and a sword of some sort (?) that I recently planted. (oh! should I remove the rock wool? I didn't, but I've seen conflicting information on this)

Tank stays around 6.5-6.8pH, 2-3 kH. Substrate is Onyx sand only. (and some flourish tabs)

(insert grumble about my well water. out of the tap the pH is low 6's, and no hardness of any type...)

I'm looking to upgrade my lighting, (I've a plain old 20 watt fluorescent) but I don't want to go too far and have an algae factory. So, the main question is this: If I dose regularly with flourish for some carbon in the water, what type/wattage of lighting should I go with to have enough light for healthy growth but not be over doing it? I'm thinking of going with 36 watts of compact fluorescent (power compact) Is that too much? not enough? what "type" of bulb should I use? (5000k, ect.. color range I think is what that means) The lighting I'm thinking of is a kit from Aquarium Hobbyist Supply: http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm (42 bucks + shipping and some wood and some labor)

I don't want too much lighting, because my understanding is that with high lighting and low Carbon/CO2 available, I'm just encouraging algae growth.

Some assumptions that I've made based on my research:

1) I don't think I'll need to dose with nitrates or potasium, both should be in sufficient supply for my needs. (moderate planting, moderate light)

2) Flourish should supply me with more than enough traces, and it has some sort of carbon available in low amounts.

3) too much light without CO2 of some sort is wasted, the plants won't need/use the light because of not enough CO2.

4) The crypts and the sword both will be healthy (may not grow like gangbusters, but thats ok) in moderate light.

Whew.. another newbie with a long post. Thanks for any help/suggestions you guys can offer!
 
2) Flourish should supply me with more than enough traces, and it has some sort of carbon available in low amounts.
Click to expand...

flourish will give you the K and traces you need, but has no carbon source. flourish excel, on the other hand, is the carbon source. They are two different products. you might want to dose both.

I'd put around 50-60 watts of light. maybe a 55 watt pc from www.petsupplyliquidator.com or www.ahsupply.com. get ~6500k bulb. best color temp for plants.

HTH
 
Ok, thanks for the help. I've got a 55 watt PC light on the way, and some flourish and flourish excel.

One more question: What is the consensus about removing the rock wool/fiberglass/whatever the stuff is that potted plants come in? I've seen conflicting info about whether to remove it, or just put it in the tank with the plant. (I didn't remove it, but I did carefully cut the pot away.)

Thanks again.
 
Yes, remove all traces of the rock wool. It is used by growers to force rapid growth and unnecessary for your purposes.......in fact, in many cases counter productive in the long run.
The key to keeping the algae in moderation is balance. For your purposes, moderate lighting should be balanced with moderate plant mass, which you do not have at this time, IMO.

'The crypts and the sword both will be healthy (may not grow like gangbusters, but thats OK) in moderate light.'
You have very light plant mass, and Crypts. are slow growing plants.
I agree that 55 watts of CF lighting would be a good fit, for what you want to accomplish. Keep in mind that you will need to stay with relatively low light plants, and that, IMO you will need more of them for balance.

'I don't think I'll need to dose with nitrates or potassium, both should be in sufficient supply for my needs.'
You have a light fish load, so you may need to dose more than just Traces and carbonic acid to support your plants. Maybe a general, all purpose plant food that will supply a bit of N, P, and K to balance the Traces.
You could start without it and if the plants don't grow well, start with a 1/2 dosage and see how they react.

Len
 
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php

This is a good place to learn about the light level requirements of plants and it has lots of pictures for you to help you decide on what you want in your tank.
 
I have a 29 with a CF 55 from AH Supply - it works great. That puts you close to 2 WPG, which is considered 'medium light.' I have yet to find a 'high light' plant that didn't flourish with my setup - Rotala, Red Cabomba, et al. do great. My plants emit streams of bubbles and the fast growers (hornwort, Cabomba, Pennywort, anacharis) need to be trimmed regularly. Crypts and Swords should be fine. I had Crypts and Swords doing great with a jerry-rigged 35 Watt setup before I upgraded the lighting.

The one thing I would be concerned about is the lack of CO2. Despite what anyone might tell you, 55 watts is a lot of light. There is a fair chance that you will get some algae if you don't use any CO2. I would definitely recommend getting more plants in the tank if you are going to have that much light to help fight algae. I tried using Flourish Excel in the past when I had around 1WPG - it seemed completely useless. I switched to DIY CO2 and there was a marked improvement in growth and reduced algae.

The color temp of the bulb mostly depends on your taste. The higher the color temp, the more bluish it looks. I like 5500, but it will have a bit of a bluish tint compared to what your old bulb in your tanks has. If you can look at Salt Water tanks at a LFS with diff't color temp CF bulbs you can get some sense of what they are going to look like.

"My research on DIY CO2 is that it takes lots of time and tweaking." It doesn't take too much time - I use Champagne Yeast which is a slow producer and tolerates high alcohol levels. I change out my bottles every three weeks, and have let them slide longer without seeing much production decrease. It takes a bit of tweaking here and there, but it isn't a huge ordeal. I spend a lot more time on pruning plants and doing water changes. I did post a horror story a few days ago, but that was really a result of my lameness.

"1) I don't think I'll need to dose with nitrates or potassium, both should be in sufficient supply for my needs. (moderate planting, moderate light)"

I dose some potassium (KCl). It helps. I have a high fish load, so my nitrates stay up typically. I occasionally see them dip low and then I dose with 'Grant's Stump Remover,' which is Potassium Nitrate. You ought to get a Nitrate test kit to see whether dosing would be useful for you.

"2) Flourish should supply me with more than enough traces, and it has some sort of carbon available in low amounts."
There is "Flourish", and there is "Flourish Excel". "Flourish" will give you traces, but no carbon. "Flourish Excel" is a organic carbon thing, I don't think it has any other nutrients in it.

"3) too much light without CO2 of some sort is wasted, the plants won't need/use the light because of not enough CO2."
Too much light without CO2 encourages algae. If you are going to go with the 55 I would seriously consider CO2. Your plants will be healthier.

4) The crypts and the sword both will be healthy (may not grow like gangbusters, but thats ok) in moderate light.
They both should be fine. I had them both doing well in 1WPG, though there may be differences is Sword species with varying light needs.
 
WooHoo!

Thanks tons, guys. I'm glad you dispelled some of my misconceptions, and reinforced some of the things I've seen and read. I most definately will be getting more plants, I already have my eyes on a few places that look to be good suppliers. I will most likely set up a DIY CO2 injection, I'm currently deciding on a reactor design that will both work and not look silly. Whether or not the CO2 system is totally for the fish tank remains to be seen. I've always wanted an excuse to set up a still... :p Ok, thats probably a bad idea.

My new aquarium light is on it's way from big al's. They had a 55watt PC hood that is *supposed* to fit my tank, and if it doesn't then I will make or buy an acrylic top for my tank. I want as little of the top of the tank open as possible. (keeps my nosy cat's paws out of the tank :mad: bad kitty..)

Petsmart (eek!) in my area (Gulfport MS) actually seems to have some people in the fish dept that know at least a little bit about what they are doing. (I know... surprised me too!) All their fish look healthy, and still look healthy 2-3 weeks later, they all eat, (I've watched them feed em!) and I've actually seen em recommend against certain fish combinations. (IE, they told the guy that they know has an oscar to not get that fancy looking guppy unless he was sure he wanted his oscar to eat it) They also have a good selection of healthy looking live plants.

My sword actually seems to be doing well with my current light (standard 24 inch tube... 20 watts I think?) and the crypts are putting out new leaves, but my gouramis are picking at them a bit. No biggie, I don't mind them supplementing their diet, the plants will soon outnumber the fish. The only algae problem I have so far is brown algea, and I want to get some oto's anyway. (They ARE good eaters of diatoms, no?) I'm sure I'll battle algae as I get the tank stabilized with the right ferts, lighting, CO2, traces, ect, so we'll see how it goes.
 
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