ludwigia questions

[Paccula]

Stemletts, and NKP

alright, I just picked up a nice big Ludwigia repens (thanks djlen for suggesting it!) from petland this afternoon. I carefuly picked off as much of that stuff it was planted in as possible (fiber glass type stuff), and planted it in flourite. I also picked up some NPK (it was cheep and I couldn't find the right things at walmart/pharmacys). My question is, should I fertilize now, or wait until things have settled down in the tank? traces are already in the tank from earlier.
also, the guy at the store threw in a whole bunch of little stems with roots from whatever plants were floating around. (woot!) one I'm sure is another ludwig, one is cabomba (I'll try to take care of it but I'm sure it'll wither away since its such a hard plant to keep I hear) and the others are so small and green I'm not sure what they are. right now I have them in a floating livebearer breeding trap so they don't get blown around and sucked into my power filter or anything. how long can I let them float and grow before I should plant them? they are about an inch long each and have between 2 and 5 nodes (some have lots of tiny leaves and one has big leaves, hence only 2 nodes).
thanks for being patient with all my questions!

 

[djlen]

You really need to put your tank's parameters in your signature so that each time you post we can see what you've got and give advice based on that.
I can't begin to imagine whether you need to fert. without knowing light, plants already in the tank, size of the tank and how long it's been up and running.
If you decide to post these, also put in your water's pH, kH and if you've tested for nitrates and phosphates.
I know it sounds picky, but it's like you pull into a gas station and ask the guy to fix the car without opening the hood.
I'd also like to know whether you got the 'NPK' mixed together or each separately.

Len

 

[Paccula]

oops, sorry I didn't include my water paramiters. your gas station analogy was quite helpful!

pH 7.3-7.5
KH about 200 ppm
GH about 200 ppm
Nitrite 0 mg/l
Nitrate 30 mg/l

tank is 10gallon with six 1 inch long blackskirt tetras, 1 java fern, 1 large ludwig, and several stemletts as mentioned prior which I plan on growing and planting. tank has been set up since October '04.
the KH and GH listed above are aproximate, as my test strips test a wide range overall, but the individual color spots my water matches to say that KH is between 180-300 and GH between 150-300. (I have "Jungle" brand strips)
Light is 1.4wpg from a flouresent bulb for freshwater plants and fish. Bulb is new as of December 15 2004.
Temperature is 76F. 25%-30% water change every saturday, and new water is heated before added to tank so no temp flux. Water is dechlorinated and aged 2-3 days before being added. I also add "black water extract" for tannins/vitimins, but if I can find a small cheep peice of real drift wood I will get that instead.
1 power filter, with only filter foam, no carbon. I have discontinued use of but not removed my undergravel filter (I will in a few months when I move)

Yes, the NPK I have is together, liquid "Plant Gro" brand. (I wanted to buy them seperately, but can't find them anywhere in this city!) 0.6-0.3-2.4
I also have liquid trace with iron, same brand. 0.15-0-0 has iron, nitrogen, magnese, zinc, boron, copper, and molybdate.
it has no Magnesium so I bought epsom salts but haven't used them yet as I don't know the dosage.

I thought I really needed fertilizers because even though my java fern has survived thus far, it is growing very slowly, has yellow leaves with green veins, and young leaves are glassy on the ends. I had some plants before but they turned glassy and melted away very quickly (I had 2 unidentified rossette plants of the same kind, and some sort of fern. a poster in the better pet store, however, shows the fern as a terrestrial plant..)

perhaps a good quote for the moment is "give a man a fish he eats for a day. teach a man to fish he eats for life". If you have a link to or could tell me how to figure out the nutrients in the water from the above information, I wouldn't need to ask so many questions and feel like I'm bothering everyone. Plus, I like figureing stuff like that out! then I could constantly monitor everything. that would be great

 

[happychem]

Here's some reading and a worthwhile app.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm

Are there any hydroponics shops around you? That's where I found my ferts.

FYI, yes, you can leave most stem plants floating for quite a while. They won't look very pretty, they'll be all twisty from bending up towards the light, but it's a good way to get use out of short stems and to rescue stumpy ones suffering from low light.

I find that j.fern does tend to look 'glassy' at the tips while it's growing well. I think that the new tissue grows out first then it fills in the chloroplasts and cell goodies at a slower rate. At least this is what I've noticed in my tanks.

 

[djlen]

Much better. Now you've got the hood up and I can see your tank.
I don't think you need to dose Mg+ with your hardness factors. Even if the test strips are off a bit, you've got some pretty hard water.
The problem for you with the mix you bought is that you're measuring N=30ppm and if you dose what you have, that number will only rise and maintain your imbalance.
I suggest you go to the local pharmacy and get some Fleets Enema for P, and to the supermarket, in the dietary or spice, or salt section and look for salt substitutes-NoSalt or NuSalt or something equivalent for K. The chemical you're looking for in the substitute is KCl(potassium chloride).
You have a light/moderate fish load so your high N is probably out of the tap......correct?
When you acquire the Fleets and salt substitutes you can balance your numbers better.
Yes, it does sound as though your plants need some fertilization from your description.
I could give you a general starting point for dosing, but since you asked I will refer you here: www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm
Among other things of interest, there is a down-loadable desktop dosing calculator which will be of enormous assistance to you once you've got your individual ferts.
And if you get hung up on something, someone here will be happy to help. It's our hobby as well, and not a 'bother' at all.
Hope this helps

Len

 

[happychem]

Beat you by an hour with the link, Len.

 

[Paccula]

thank you both for that link.

"The Bio-filter bacteria convert ammonia and nitrites into nitrates. Plants can use all three of those as their source for nitrogen. In fact, ammonia is the preferred nitrogen source for plants." ohhh..... this I did not know. duh.
so, the nitrates ml/l = nitrogen ppm?
I'm not sure if there is N in my tap water or not. would it help to use a test strip on fresh tap water?
and Mg is assosiated with hardness, is it directly associated as with N, or is there a calculation to figure it out? I bought Mg mostly because after I move I think the water will be softer there, and it'll be easier to have it on hand if I need it. it was only $3 anyway.

also, I FINALY found NoSalt and Fleet! The NoSalt says it contains "Potassium chloride, potassium bitartrate, adipic acid, fumaric acid, silicon dioxide, mineral oil" all that other stuff is okay? The Fleet Enema is regular (not children's) and contains "monobasic sodium phosphate 16g, dibasic sodium phosphate 6g, sodium methyl hydroxybenzoate"

Is the premixed NPK fertilizer mainly for tanks without fish and no N in the tap? or is it just to sucker in newbees like me?

 

[happychem]

mg/L = ppm
1ppm = 1 part per million = 1mg of N for every kg of water. Since water is about 1g/mL or 1kg/L, 1mg NO3/kg water is about 1mg/L. However with these units it's very important to keep in mind 1mg NO3/L, not just N in general. 1ppm of NH3 is not 1ppm NO3.

Yes, testing your tap water is a good idea. You can also ask the water company for the annual water report, it will have all/most of what you're interested in. It is an annual average though so it's also worthwhile to ask if there are spikes of something of interest at certain times of the year, like spring (fertilizer runoff) or fall (high peat load from leaf litter, oh wait, Saskatchewan, no trees only wheat ).

General hardness (GH) is a measure of Ca and Mg in your water. If you have hard water, chances are you've got plenty of both, but nutrient deficiencies are a good way to keep an eye open for them. Your water company's water report could help here too. For example, Halifax (water analysis report) has a hardness of 15.8ppm CaCO3, but they also list Ca as 5ppm and Mg as 0.5ppm.

The other stuff in the NoSalt is fine, it's also present in such tiny concentrations as to be negligible for our concerns. They mostly consist of preservatives and anti-caking agents.

The NPK stuff is for the newbies.