Mafia 66: Farmers versus the Railroad - the play

[Lab_Rat]

I've been thinking about the Noods/Kash interaction and have come up with 5 plausible theories.

1.) Noods is scum, got excited about being scum, and slipped up. Kash called her on it.

2.) Noods is scum, Kash is scum, and this was a distancing stunt since the early vote on day 1 doesn't tend to hold.

3.) Noods is innocent, Kash is scum, and Noods early posting seemed like an easy thing for scum to exploit. I don't really think this is the case since Kash is a much better player than that. Scum usually lets innocents make the case on day 1, not to mention it's way way too early in the day for scum to push a case against someone.

4.) They're both innocent. I'm not getting that feeling though...

5.) Kash knows Noods is scum because Kash is the immigrant worker. Remember, the immigrant worker(s) know the identity of a railroad scum. What a brilliant way to take advantage of a scummy slip up by Noods and then see who comes to her rescue. It sticks out big time that Coler jumped in right away to rescue Noods and try to set people onto Kash. Seems it worked. Noods seems way too squirmy to be innocent, especially for this early in the game. I think Kash did use that very early vote exactly as she intended. The retraction fits as well, it would be counterproductive to lynch Noods immediately.

Look at the following I've bolded from Kash's posts:

I mainly voted Noods to gauge the reactions I'd get. In your case, I could get all twisty about this and wonder if you're trying to defend her. But I believe you'd question whatever went on today the same way regardless of your role this game.

Coler, on the other hand, seems to have given credence to the vote I placed on Noods. So that's why I went through those posts again tonight, since I had some free time right now. I don't expect I'll be a heavy poster this game because I still have a lot going on.

As for you not "remembering" this happening that previous game... yes, you were in it. So was DD, JB, Coler, and Dawg. I am interested in Noods' reaction here and I'm particularly interested in who decides to step up on her behalf. Aside from this, I don't see anything else today worth really talking about.... unless we knew that FF knew the game had started and he's not posting at all for some reason. But I think it's equally plausible that he's not posting because he doesn't know this thread exists yet.

With that... I retract my vote on Noodles.

I believe my early vote has served it's purpose and it isn't necessary to keep it there. I also agree with Pappy that Nood's early vote isn't enough all by itself to vote her out of the game. But if she continues to act like scum... in my opinion... I'll be quite happy to vote her again at that time.

Right now I'm going with theory 5.

Obviously if Kashta knew that noods was evil would be for the reason that they are both evil. However if they were both evil would it stand to reason that kashta wouldn't have brought up the whole matter and just let it pass unless someone else took notice of it? However if noods really did slip in my mind it seems to reason that Coler's horrible defense was a slip up also. It really is early in the game to have solid reasoning to vote for someone but there is always solid reasoning for defending another person and that is you are on the same team as that person.

Dag, see my immigrant worker theory above. It's another way for Kash to know Noods was evil without being evil herself.

With that, I vote to lynch Coler as railroad scum.

 

[Lab_Rat]

I vote to lynch Kashta

Please explain. I know you're new (is this your first game?) but voting without reason is generally considered scummy.

 

[jpappy789]

Lab, why don't you get the feeling the two are innocent, or at least could be? It's not odd for two innocents to go at it D1.

The theory you have makes sense, but I'm not so sure I could go with that on a whim.

Could you also explain what lynching Coler means?

 

[Lab_Rat]

I don't like the way people were so quick to defend Noods. I would expect if she were innocent that she would have blown off Kash's accusation as early day 1 bs. Instead, Coler rushed in to her defense and Noods went all :nilly: . (Seems like when she's scum and a little pressure is on her she goes :nilly: quickly.) From what I can discern, this scenario happened previously, when Kash was scum. I wasn't around for that but if Coler saved Kash from a slip up similar to what Noods posted, it's not unreasonable to think it could happen again.

Maybe Coler could explain why he was so quick to jump to Noods defense and to throw a vote on Kash...

Yes, they could both be innocent, obviously that's happened many a time on day one. I just don't think it's happening this time from the reactions Kash has gotten. I think she was on a fishing expedition and hooked a couple.

 

[noodles62]

I think it's funny how you like to think I go :nilly: only when i'm scum....I honestly think I do it everytime I get accused of something regardless of my role... I am by nature an argumentative person. That's why I love this game! LOL
My meeting just got over and i only have a few minutes to wrap things up on my desk. Hopefully I can get on my PC tonite....

 

[Lab_Rat]

I think it's funny how you like to think I go :nilly: only when i'm scum....I honestly think I do it everytime I get accused of something regardless of my role... I am by nature an argumentative person. That's why I love this game! LOL
My meeting just got over and i only have a few minutes to wrap things up on my desk. Hopefully I can get on my PC tonite....

I never said you get :nilly: ONLY when scum...I said you get that way quicker when scum. You can't get much quicker than page 1 on day 1 to go :nilly:. I think you regrouped with support of your scummates in the scumden and have now settled down. Did Coler talk you through it?

 

[Kashta]

I figure we've got probably 3 or possibly 4 evils this game. Our biggest problem is that the scum are going to turn some of us (farmers) into even more railroad owners the longer we allow them to place their hits day by day. They take a big chance each time as some of their kill attempts will backfire on them (due to those nonexistant roles and the immigrant workers). Thus, for every railroad goon we manage to kill there's a chance that their numbers may still stay the same or increase. JBradt was right... this could turn out to be a long game.

While some of us can communicate, there's no provision for us to share those deliberations with the rest of the town. There are also no investigations. This is a drawback because even our communicators can't confirm who's evil for us. But it's also good that the scum team can't investigate anyone either. They already know who all the innocents are -- which is plenty enough damaging for the town as that is. They also take great risk when choosing which one of us to hit.

Our best chance to win this, therefore, is for us to avoid the usual early game pitfalls where the town spends the first few days offering up the lives of fellow townies for lynching in exchange for a few day's worth of voting patterns as clues. If we can identify a railroad goon early enough and get a reasonable feel for anyone else linked by association with that scummy player, we go into our early nightfalls with the best possible advantage we can have.

As this game began, I saw what I believe was an excellent opportunity to identify a railroad owner. With that.... what I'm trying to do now is bypass that early stage of this game where the scum blandly sit back on their arses and giggle as we help them out by picking each other off, one by one.

My initial vote against Noodles was not random. When I first got to this thread, I saw what Noodles did in her happy little moment of enthusiasm and I recognized exactly what that meant. I made that same mistake myself when I was in the same situation Noodles is in now.

This is not a hunch or a guess. I'm convinced that Noods is on the railroad team. Based on his behavior on Noods' behalf, I also believe there's a very strong possibility that Coler is working with Noodles on that team.

I vote to lynch Coler.

There are many posts for me to respond to when I get the chance to get back online. I'll catch up with that as soon as I can.

 

[Kashta]

I'm also quite willing to change my vote in a heartbeat back to Noods. At this point, it doesn't matter which one goes first.

Coler is a bit of an off-shoot based on my belief the two are connected... because he made the strongest attack against my vote against her. If my view is correct, we'll be able to nail Coler first and still have Noodles in our sights with a little more confirmation to add to this picture.

We can then observe how other players choose to side with us or against us in relation to Noodles.

 

[jpappy789]

Kash, I want to clarify a few things based on the game where you posted early, which I found (#51).

1) You brought attention to your post first and foremost by EDITING it. That is why Mad first jumped on you right away, not because you posted early.

2) Not everyone even received PMs that game, in fact, only the PRs did. JL didn't make it known until his "game on" post that innocents wouldn't get a PM. So there was little doubt that you were not just an innocent, especially when you started talking about other people getting PMs. That is how posting early got thrown into the mix.

3) In this game you posted as an explanation to Noods that you, as scum, posted in the game thread before going to your scum den because you were excited and not thinking clearly or something to that effect. While that may be true it is also important to note that when you tried to use the fact that you wouldn't do that as your defense Mad caught you lying because you posted in the game thread first in the previous game when you two were scum. So really, it was not the action itself that was scummy but that you lied about what you would have done and were caught.

I understand putting pressure on people to gauge a reaction, but I still hate when people use that as a reason to then back off and retract a vote. It's just another thing to use as a fall back when you know your case is weak and people start to question it, which is was starting to happen. By the way you insisted that posting early was a proven scumtell, even though the situations are clearly different, speaks to the fact that at some point you legitimately believed Noods was acting scummy, or tried to portray her as doing so. That's the impression that I get so take that as you will. You also said a couple times that your vote was "random." At the risk of getting into a lovely semantics argument, I think you can agree that your vote was not at all random and had some sort of reasoning behind it...however misguided.

If I misread or misinterpreted any of this, please let me know since sometimes reading things from an outside view doesn't exactly replicate what was going on during the game.

 

[jpappy789]

I'm not at all interested in when the PMs went out or in what order, Pappy. I seriously doubt it makes a difference to any of us which ones were early or later anyway... besides, this isn't a question about JL's method of dispatching them. So I agree with you that we shouldn't speculate about the game mod at all.... but I am speculating about Noodles because her premature post is interesting.

What does concern me in a nit-picky way was Nood's claim that she posted "seconds" later. That was not a true statement... it was minutes, not seconds. So I pointed that out.

As for my vote, it was a random vote placed on the first person I saw doing something I could use to generate a little discussion on Day 1. If there's any merit to that at all, that's purely by chance.

I will add, however, that jumping the start like that IS a scum tell. The more I think about this now, the more I wonder if my vote might be a lucky shot in the dark. The exact same thing happened to me and it almost got me killed early in a game where I was scum. The reason I nearly got lynched right away was because others agreed that it's a scum tell.

No DD... this isn't a joke at all.

Noods posted early before the game actually started. Having put myself in this same position previously, I learned the hard way what a big deal this is because it's a very scummy thing to do. Coler even acknowledged that much being true with the post he made, as well. It's a careless mistake to make when you're scum that you're not prone to do at all when you're innocent.... and there's absolutely no way to defend yourself later after you've done it. Believe me, I learned that too. So I called Noods out over her little "boo boo" and I voted her to see what would happen.



Nothing scummy about that. Here, Noods simply acknowledged the vote with a touch of sarcasm and dismissed it. No big deal. Had Noods left this alone at this point and gone on with the game posting about other things, it would have died away. My early vote wouldn't have amounted to anything and I'd eventually retract it or switch the vote to some other suspect once the game got going.



If Noods was in one of the innocent roles, I believe she would not have addressed this again. Why would she bother? A lone vote from me over some trivial Day 1 blunder (that's probably just random anyway) isn't going to get anyone lynched, so why even worry about it, Noodles?

In this case, however, Noods knew she shouldn't touch it according to her statement above that she was "not going to address this again but...." And as a veteran player Noods knows why she shouldn't have said anything more.

Even so, she still couldn't leave it alone.

Noods is no stranger to being in the hot seat, that's for sure. But when she's evil, this kind of scrutiny tends to unravel her. That doesn't happen when Noods is innocent... she takes everything in stride.

Noods coming back again to discuss this even more tells me she DOES have something to hide from us AND that my voting her for that post got to her for some reason. No, this does not conclusively pin her as being evil all by itself. Of course not. But it's a huge indicator in Nood's case that bears watching how her play continues in this game. It's just one little puzzle piece that I'll tuck away for later comparison a few days from now when we're all analyzing voting patterns and such.



After this... Noods came back to my vote again and asked me to explain it. Hmmm.. okay, Noods. I was happy to oblige. Perhaps Noods wasn't counting on the fact that I'd have a real explanation why it's considered a scum tell. But I did, so there we are. Again, Noods should've left this alone. Even against her own better judgement, she couldn't let it slide.

THAT's the most reliable scum tell of all.

Twice you brought forth that your vote was random so Noodles shouldn't have reacted the way she did...but now you say it wasn't. You're contradicting yourself Kash. Also, if you're so sure that Noods is mafia then why vote Coler who is only a strong possibility of being connected? You say that if we can ID a mafia goon early that we should get rid of them asap...well, then why the wait with Noods?

I figure we've got probably 3 or possibly 4 evils this game. Our biggest problem is that the scum are going to turn some of us (farmers) into even more railroad owners the longer we allow them to place their hits day by day. They take a big chance each time as some of their kill attempts will backfire on them (due to those nonexistant roles and the immigrant workers). Thus, for every railroad goon we manage to kill there's a chance that their numbers may still stay the same or increase. JBradt was right... this could turn out to be a long game.

While some of us can communicate, there's no provision for us to share those deliberations with the rest of the town. There are also no investigations. This is a drawback because even our communicators can't confirm who's evil for us. But it's also good that the scum team can't investigate anyone either. They already know who all the innocents are -- which is plenty enough damaging for the town as that is. They also take great risk when choosing which one of us to hit.

Our best chance to win this, therefore, is for us to avoid the usual early game pitfalls where the town spends the first few days offering up the lives of fellow townies for lynching in exchange for a few day's worth of voting patterns as clues. If we can identify a railroad goon early enough and get a reasonable feel for anyone else linked by association with that scummy player, we go into our early nightfalls with the best possible advantage we can have.

As this game began, I saw what I believe was an excellent opportunity to identify a railroad owner. With that.... what I'm trying to do now is bypass that early stage of this game where the scum blandly sit back on their arses and giggle as we help them out by picking each other off, one by one.

My initial vote against Noodles was not random. When I first got to this thread, I saw what Noodles did in her happy little moment of enthusiasm and I recognized exactly what that meant. I made that same mistake myself when I was in the same situation Noodles is in now.

This is not a hunch or a guess. I'm convinced that Noods is on the railroad team. Based on his behavior on Noods' behalf, I also believe there's a very strong possibility that Coler is working with Noodles on that team.

I vote to lynch Coler.

There are many posts for me to respond to when I get the chance to get back online. I'll catch up with that as soon as I can.

I vote to lynch Kashta

The contradictory remarks are just plain scummy. Not to mention that I believe she twisted around the situation from the past game in order to frame not one, but two people.