Mafia 73: Werewolf Game!

as for why JB that's a hard one
If LR is innocent then why would the wolves take someone doing their job for them?
If LR is guilty it sure looks bad that he was hit so it could be a setup, or it could be worth the risk to get rid of him especially since the town would probably buy the set up theory.
On the other hand if Kash is guilty then it doesn't appear to make sense to take out an innocent who's doing her dirty work, but she would know she was going to look bad today, and taking out JB sets up LR and muddies the water.

I think this was a tough calls for the wolves as FF was still looking for PM's 5 minutes before nightfall.

What if both Lab Rat and Kashta are scum? Right now I don't particularly trust either of them. They had a nice little bickering session between earlier today in which both of them laid out a flimsy case against the other and then left it at that. Shortly after that people started going for noobs. To me it appears to be a quick distancing and then have team mates stir up the noob pot to draw attention away.
 
Nice try JM.
No body (besides the WW) know who is innocent, you stated he had the record for voting innocents... in fact he voted ppl you are saying you THINK are innocent. You however DID vote innocents both nights. I am well aware of the fact he voted me, no on besides myself and the WW know what I am, so in YOUR OPINION he voted innocents, in MY opinion from what I know he has voted ONE innocent, there is no fact behind that statement. You through the statement out there, knowing YOU have in fact voted two KNOWN innocents. My point is, you really shouldn't be pointing fingers at others for things you THINK they have done when you have actually DONE it.

As far as his jump voting, yep THAT is a fact and THAT is something that has raised red flags along with the statements in the votes. Although, how in the world would that NOT bring attention to him?

Night one, my vote was on Rocker (another FACT)...along side my vote was your "innocent" Kash, who had made alot of noise about Pap and Zaff, but her vote landed next to mine, not on either of the 2 she kept talking about. I didn't see a reason really to vote Pap or Zaff, so why would I? Rocker looked scummiest to me, and he still looks very scummy, and I'm sure until he is gone he will continue to look that way, he is just a distraction to the town and really needs to go IMO.
Night two, of course I moved my vote (which btw went from ZAFF to LAB...not the other way) I saw reason to doubt my vote and I moved it, as things progressed I wasn't liking my vote where it was on Lab either..and it accomplished exactly what I thought it would, it shows Kash REALLY wasn't behind her "lets make a tie, I don't care who goes" theory. How in the world can you say I thought I wouldn't draw attention to myself by switching?? That's just dumb, of course I knew it would draw attention, how would it not, I broke a tie up that Kash really wanted. So what, I wasn't about to leave my vote on someone I was having doubts about being WW, rather it drew attention to me or not.

We all know you forget about the seer as per last game but it's possible the seer knows some innocents this game.
 
Just posting thoughts, thinkin out loud. Never indicated anything about being innocent or evil.

Do you think it would be more beneficial to the town if you thought your thoughts to completion before posting fragments? I for one think Kashta is most likely scum mainly for the reasons of who has gotten taken out and case presented for zaffy which I'll admit had me suspecting him. That is just too powerful to not take out if you're a ww.
 
We all know you forget about the seer as per last game but it's possible the seer knows some innocents this game.
That is true, but we know nothing at his point.

Do you think it would be more beneficial to the town if you thought your thoughts to completion before posting fragments? I for one think Kashta is most likely scum mainly for the reasons of who has gotten taken out and case presented for zaffy which I'll admit had me suspecting him. That is just too powerful to not take out if you're a ww.
Sorry if my posting is not the detailed, drawn out, spread sheet data base that others keep and post. Maybe a thought or two from you would of been helpful too. As far as completing my thoughts, I did. I put what I thought, the fact I add what could be another possibility well, sorry I can't see putting something out there with out also putting the possible other side of it.
 
What if both Lab Rat and Kashta are scum? Right now I don't particularly trust either of them. They had a nice little bickering session between earlier today in which both of them laid out a flimsy case against the other and then left it at that. Shortly after that people started going for noobs. To me it appears to be a quick distancing and then have team mates stir up the noob pot to draw attention away.
That is possible, and something I had thought about also (Kash and Lab)
Aside from JM I see no one really going for the noobs, except the noobs?
 
It seems like just a few posts ago you were ready to "get rid of him". Which is it now?
I am ready to get rid of him, he has done NOTHING at all except make himself look like scum. I'm NOT ready to vote him at this time, as I see bigger threats from others right now.
 
Some more on User_Name. He seems to 'know' a lot. He follows the JM train D1 and probes him, next day he's cleared. He attacks G, then leaves her alone. I am hesitant on what this means. He could be taking orders to back off of players that will lash out, or something else... So, for now, I'm going to see how things play out and retract my vote on UN.
 
Lady G, you've used more backwards logic in this game than any other I've seen you play.

Why is that?

(Both of these quotes come from the same post. I've split them up to address one issue Lady G raised before responding to the other.)

He may be innocent, but he sure is doing nothing for the town. No, I'm not willing to vote him off at this point there are others that stand out way more, I just don't understand why he even got into this game.
Speaking of those who aren't really playing...Dag, are you going to post any thoughts this round?

Yeah, when I moved I figured Kash (since she wanted the tie, and didn't care which went would move), Zaff would have to move to Lab, and Lab would have to move to Zaff. The other two did happen. Kash on the other hand did not move. SOooo, when that didn't happen is disproved her posts from the entire day...she DID care who went first and wasn't behind her "tie" as much as she seemed to be.

Of course, not. I wasn't going to move my vote just because they did. That would be pointless.

I already told you it didn't matter which one got lynched. I've been very clear about my suspicions and on everything they were based. Let the town then decide which one goes... and, maybe we'll get lucky enough to see who jumps in with a scummy vote switch.

For me to suggest the run-off in the first place and then be the one to undo it all after the town agreed would have defeated the whole purpose behind it. There's no logic behind a move like that, whatsoever.

The benefit of putting them both into a tie was so we would find out who would might come along to break that tie one way or the other.... Or... to see who jumped to save one over the other.... or even to see who bailed off of their vote and that person turns out to be innocent later on because they couldn't risk letting one or the other's fate remain up to the chance of a coin toss.

That was very important on the odd chance that one or the other was actually innocent. That would also show us who else was connected with them (or with one over the other).

Moving my vote anywhere else at any time after they were in a tie would have ruined that whole plan for us to find other scum.

As scum would have been perfectly safe just blending in with the rest of our votes were already knew we would learn very little more from that night's vote record beyond one person's innocence or guilt. So any late switch at the end of that night... like yours... would help reveal to us who else was aligned with either Lab Rat or Zaffy.

You made that jump yourself, Lady G. And THIS reason you give us to explain that away doesn't justify anything. You already knew I had no intention of switching my vote, as did everyone else.

Here's why.

The way Lab Rat was posting just before nightfall and just after nightfall caught my attention. I looked closer at her Day 1 posts after that and realized she did seem scummy as heck. Before then, I hadn't noticed anything particularly scummy that stood out... well, other than the fact that she seemed to be hiding out, laying low, making non-committal posts, etc.,... AND possibly helping to write some of Piranha's posts for him.

As you surely remember, I was also suspecting Zaffy already because he kept refusing to answer my questions to the point that I had to ask him again and again. Not being able to explain your behavior in this game and avoiding the subject when someone calls you out for it is a scummy thing to do. You were also questioning him for the same reason at that time.

Lab Rat then bailed off her vote against Zaffy so darned fast before she went to bed... as soon as we found out Pappy was innocent and using that as an excuse to "clear" Zaffy all the way from her highest suspect down to "nearly neutral" was not logical.

Us finding out Zaffy and Pappy were not communicating evils together in no way exhonerated Zaffy from the suspicious posts and behavior he had made himself.... as Lab Rat claimed just to explain herself. It just meant Pappy wasn't his teammate. That's why her so-called reason didn't hold up.

This made such a drastic move on Lab Rat's part seem highly scummy to me. Had her vote on Zaffy been nothing but a safe distancing vote on Day 1, then that's a reasonable explanation why Lab would have to use Pappy's confirmed innocence to sway the town into no longer suspecting her teammate Zaffy. She used Pappy's innocence to suddenly defend Zaffy like that was a foregone conclusion she had planned from the get-go...... which also supports the possibility that her vote on Zaffy WAS distancing. Zaffy, the player she voted as her most suspicious choice just a couple of hours before.

When someone does a sudden about-face like that and has no logical basis to back it up, that reversal of direction is a red flag. Plain and simple.

That apparent connection between them made me suspect them both as communicating evils. Therefore, if I'm reasonably certain both parties are wolves, WTF would I care which one we lynched first?

In their case and based on strong suspicions I held and having posted all the rationale behind it, and stating very clearly I wanted them both gone... one dead werewolf was just as good as the other. What difference would that have made then if Lab was lynched first and Zaffy next, or vice versa? Or even if they both swapped their votes around? If the town agreed Zaffy was the best choice, so be it. And if we agreed Lab Rat was a better choice instead, that was just as good.

I saw JB had made a brilliant case against Lab Rat right after she posted her "newly revised" scum-list to back off on Zaffy completely. I agreed with everything he said because I'd already seen her behavior the exact same way. JB made a very solid case against her. I posted as well to let everyone know I believe she's scum too and to explain why. Then the posts Zaffy started out with right after that were very suspicious, as well, so I called him out for that.

Say whatever you want and try to wiggle your way out of the spotlight for the action you took on your own initiative, Lady G. The fact remains that your claim now, trying to make this sound like you changed your vote to find out if I would change mine.... isn't even plausible, much less believable.

No sleep because of the game, trying to figure out who the WW are? You posted like 2 posts after nightfall night one, zoned in on Zaff and Lab day two, and again posted like 2 times after nightfall night two? How were you up so late and not posting anything? You zoned in on Zaff and wasn't looking anywhere else how can you say you got no sleep from trying to figure out who the WW are?? :bs:

No sleep, Lady G, because I spend my time reviewing the thread and pulling all the posts for players I feel are acting weird, suspicious, or out of character to figure out if there's any evidence to back up what they say they are doing and find other clues that warrant questioning. I also track different player's suspects and votes... and who they seem to agree with or disagree with from one day to another. This helps me find contradictions, faulty logic, and other scum-tells. And all the time I spend doing this, whether it turns out to be productive or not, takes up a lot of time I'd otherwise use to make posts in this thread.

And unlike you, Lady G, I don't fill up this thread with useless and unsubstantiated "thinking out loud" posts where I deliberately contradict myself in the same post all the time to avoid taking a stand on anything, hoping I won't be held accountable later on, or anything else that only serves to misdirect and confuse the town.
 
As I get more time to be here today/tonight, I'll pull more quotes and respond.
 
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