Mafia 78- The Gunslinger Returns...The Play

So what is best for the town Ice?

Does laying traps and trying to confuse people help? Does playing like you want to be the slinger again help?

You seem way too focused on saying who your shot will be rather than helping the current slinger figure out who to shoot. Yes, ultimately Wiz has to decide for himself but from my point of view you're not making that decision any easier for him.

Earlier you said that the people going after you were most likely innocent because the mafia wouldn't want to give you the gun. Now your entire mafia list is more or less composed of people who named you and/or you have had open disagreements with...huh...

You play your way I'll play mine. I said what I said after most of the town already named me as the 1st shot. I wanted to see if any that hadn't decided to all of a sudden come after me.

Only Wiz can say if my actions help him or not, I don't see how any of you can make that call.
 
Good Luck Gunslinger Wiz! Hope you get one!

Woot woot, game on!

One? I hope he gets five.

Chill was the first to make FF's opening post seem scummy.

And no pressure on Wizard now, is there? LOL. (Yes, that's sarcasm.)

Well this game doesn't lend its self to idle chit chat.

I'll get the ball rolling for Wiz.

1.Why do we think the mafia chose Wiz?

2.Who do you think would choose Wiz as the 1st Slinger?

Chill was the first to answer. That second one, he answered the question with another question.

Could simply be because he was thinking about not playing because of limited time.

As to who - not sure anyone have a good track record of fooling him?

Two minutes later, Chill reposted this question again.

As to who - not sure. Anyone have a good track record of fooling him?

That seems like an innocuous question from Chill. Reviewing the thread today, I wondered.... who...? If scum, who might Chill already have had in mind as a possible target to draw Wizard's shot by asking this?

1. Me? Sure. That's entirely possible. In the time Wizard and I have both been playing, I've been evil twice while Wizard was innocent... and Wizard didn't figure out my role. It's possible Chill asked this question hoping Wizard might think of this himself and wonder if I was evil. Depending on how the town responded, that suspicion, along with lingering doubt in Wizard's mind, could certainly get me shot.

2. Chill? Not likely. Chill has been evil twice. In their first game together where Chill was evil, Wizard was their D1 hit... and there was no dead ghost chat. Even if Wizard had followed that game closely after he'd been killed, monitoring a game to the end when you're dead and playing a game as a still-living/participating innocent (where you're actively being "fooled" by scum) isn't the same. The second game? Wizard had no opportunity to be "fooled" by Chill.......Wizard and Chill were evil together.

3. If evil...... Chill's motive behind this question could also implicate someone else. I don't remember who all the evils were in every single game Wizard has ever played as an innocent, so I can't answer that myself. Chill could also have been setting someone up in Wizard's mind other than me.

Considering Chill's game when he's been evil before, it's not unlike him to plant something subtle like this to point suspicion toward someone he wants the town (or in this case, our shooter) to become suspicious of.

Chill was also the one who mentioned Wizard may have been the mafia's 1st pick as gunslinger due to limited time constraint. If that was their actual reason for choosing him, Chill may have told us so in this post.
 
Reviewing Chill's early comments/questions to decide whether there're scummy motives behind his posts, a case could also be made that Ice acted as Chill's helper... or vice versa. It's just hard to tell whether they are working together or if Chill took advantage of Ice's posts to suit his team's agenda.

That is why I think they chose him also. But Wiz is pretty good at picking out scum so its not a smart move IMO except that he has limited time. But that just means we need to push the envelope more for him and get players talking. It would be better for him to ask his own questions since he knows what answers he expects but every little bit should help.

Ice being ever-helpful, agrees with Chill in response to Chill's post and immediately distances himself from the (proposed) scum team's reason for selecting Wizard. Could be working together... still hoping to draw attention to me as Wizard's target without it leading back to either of them.

Wizard knows that I know better than anyone that he almost didn't play due to time limits and why. I almost didn't sign up either for the same reason. I just didn't say so in the sign up thread since Wizard already had. We've both missed several games because other stuff in real life has limited the free time we have to play.

Are you saying your team didn't care who was slinger and just picked a name out of a 10 gallon hat?

Here, Ice quoted FF saying the mafia may have picked Wizard at random.... a reasonable guess IMO from someone like FF who has good insight about players sometimes but is not real savvy on strategy. While Chill already quoted FF to make him look possibly scummy, Ice followed that by actually placing FF on the scum team for us.

As posting continued, Rich said he'd pick the best player first.

I would pick one of the best players first. It is the hardest shot with the worst odds. I would want to get the good players out of the way first.

Perhaps, this wasn't the direction Ice and/or Chill were hoping it would go when Chill proposed his original question... "Anyone have a good track record of fooling him?"

That was tried last time and didn't work out to well till they were down to 1 and able to hide.

Since you answered with the term "I" are you admitting to being mafia?

Ice gave reason to negate speculation that could lead back to himself. He also turned the post against Rich.

hmph, if ur gonna make accusiations, at least have a valid reason. i didn't know he was short on time, so i didn't know why he would be chosen.

PS, i gotta go to bed, gonna be up at 5 tommorrow so ima need my sleep.

Later in thread, FF got grilled over going to bed early. I don't believe anyone paid attention to his preceding post to that telling Ice to have a valid reason when he accuses someone.

Yes of course I am.

You got lucky. Does not mean it will happen again.

Okay I misunderstood the play. So now it makes more sense to me the question really should be is there anyone he has a good track record of reading?

Chill had been watching the thread and either didn't like the way it started going in different directions or he'd given his previous question further thought... or something. So he said he misunderstood something... (what?)... then Chill changed his question.

This is quite interesting if you reread those pages. Why would Chill change that question based on what had been posted?

-- FF guessing it was random and Ice reacting by saying FF was on the scum team? No, that doesn't relate to Chill's question at all...

-- Rich telling Ice he got lucky as the gunslinger in a previous game? That wouldn't be it since it has nothing to do with who has fooled Wizard before (Chill's question). Wizard wasn't playing yet when the first gunslinger game ran.

-- Between posts #24/25 where Chill asked who has fooled Wizard before.... and Post #36 where he changed that question to who Wizard has a good track record of reading.... what else had posted besides what I quoted already? Nothing other than Jspigs (post #29) disagreeing with FF that the gunslinger pick might be random. As that doesn't relate to Chill's original question, that wouldn't have prompted Chill to change the question either.

If someone on the mafia sees him as a threat it would make sense to put him up first. Day one always suck - your game being the exception Ice - so get him up when he has the least possible information to work with.

Here Chill expands the question to include anyone who may consider a Wizard threat to them.

So Wiz are there people you are good at reading that you think would want you out of the way sooner rather than later.

And here, after not getting the desired reaction from others Chill decided to question the gunslinger instead.... prompting Wizard to suggest likely targets he may shoot. Truly... this dialogue should be the other way around.

You know, I have been trying to think about that. I do tend to get hit early lately. Try as I might I cannot remember the scum den posts from the games to figure that out.

The best I can remember are the most recent ones where LR and DD were wanting to get rid of me. Problem with that is, LR is the game mod and DD isn't playing.

As this post shows, Chill was successful at directing Wizard's gaze where he wanted it to go. It's up to us (and Wizard) now to decide whether Chill was sincerely asking questions to help reveal who the scum are for Wizard's benefit (and the town's best interest)... or was Chill leading Wizard around by the nose instead?
 
In answer to Wizard's questions:

Wizard, I tried to give you the best answers I could as your questions were posted. I simply couldn't pinpoint real suspicion from anyone by name without being able to dig through the posts yet. I've been doing that more today. I still have further to go in the thread, but it's all the time I can give this before your deadline will be here.

Here are my thoughts, based on what I found.

1. Why did the mafia choose you as gunslinger? I suspect Chill answered that directly in the thread himself by telling us their actual reason. Ice agreed with Chill's post and may have also participated in your selection.

2. Who would have chosen you? Practically anyone in the game. You were a good choice for them because you're smart enough to generate wide discussion the scum could then use to their advantage trying to implicate innocents. You're also diligent and determined enough to keep the town talking. That doesn't only help the town, it also helps the mafia.... because that makes it easier for them to be active, pretend to be innocent, and still hide behind other targets. Choosing you also limited your ability to dredge through posts and confront suspects directly, which is your usual style of play.

3. If I had to shoot someone now? Well, that varies according to new input we read in the thread of course. My shot now would be Chill.

4. If I shot Ice and he was revealed evil, who would I shoot next? Simple answer there now.... Chill.

At this point, I'd rather shoot Chill. There are lots of good reasons to suspect Ice on his own and I believe there's enough in the thread to suggest Ice and Chill may be working together. I just don't know yet whether that's conclusive enough to link them to warrant shooting Ice instead of Chill. Ice could have helped Chill's cause inadvertently without realizing it.

I have no clue how good Chill is at reading Ice or how good Ice is at reading Chill. Either way... looking back from the very beginning, both Chill and Ice were more than ready to get things moving. They were "raring to go" long before most other players even showed up to say howdy. That fact stands out to me more than anything else, as we all know from Lab Rat the mafia team got a 24-hour head start over the rest of us.
 
Okeydokey, I am back. It is good to see some participation from the town. What bothers me is that it is from the same people that have been talking throughout this game.

Really? None of the rest of you care what happens? Or do you fail to grasp the concept of a team?

It doesn't matter how good your quarterback and receivers are. If your offensive line doesn't contribute to the effort, you will lose. I have NEVER in all my years seen a touchdown pass thrown by any quarterback when he is on his back, and I remember watching the greats. Staubach, Unitas, Starr, Stabler to name a few.
 
It doesn't matter how good your quarterback and receivers are. If your offensive line doesn't contribute to the effort, you will lose. I have NEVER in all my years seen a touchdown pass thrown by any quarterback when he is on his back, and I remember watching the greats. Staubach, Unitas, Starr, Stabler to name a few.

You forgot Carson Palmer...
 
After reading Kashta's posts about Chill, I have decided I agree with her about Chill.
 
After reading Kashta's posts about Chill, I have decided I agree with her about Chill.

What about her posts makes you think so?

I have not seen much to change my mind about things. I wish I had found even a small revelation in today's posting, but not so far.

I still would not shoot Ice. I am rethinking my pick of LG though. I have to digest all of this a bit.

Would a mafia member be out there throwing around ideas or just grunting that makes sense or some such not committal post.
 
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