Mafia 78- The Gunslinger Returns...The Play

[Taysius]

It always worries me when people say "I'll post soon" and then never do...

This was almost 24 hours ago. This is your only post. Welcome to my suspect list.

I agree, it's kind of irritating too. I may be a low poster but I do try to pop in and keep up on what's going on and add any thoughts I may have.

 

[Taysius]

With Ice showing innocent(maybe) my list is pretty short:

Rich
Kash

I've mentioned Rich before so there's your explanation for him.
I list Kash based on the bit of sloppiness from her latest posts. It's not really like her from what I know. I'm not saying I'd shoot her...yet. I just think she's worth looking into.

As for the other three suspects I'm not sure. Hard to say when you have a group of people already playing dead. Evening is usually more lively than this.

 

[jpappy789]

It's very interesting to me to hear that Ice is innocent. You'll have to forgive me for not fully believing you at this point. With the past couple of games and their false claims it has me suspicious.

I understand. The two hypotheticals that would make sense to me in the town's views would be...

1) I am mafia and named Ice hoping to gain his and also the town's trust myself. Problem is I could have come up with a better innocent to have "investigated" because Ice as a known innocent is very dangerous to me now. I would have picked another player who is less dangerous but still plausible as a choice.

2) Both Ice and I are scum. Risky but if no one questioned it we could get away with it. Based on what I have said today regarding Ice I don't think it would make very much sense although it could have all been distancing from the start. Again, it is risky, mainly because we would not have known that we would be getting the investigation to make it full circle.

It is interesting that Ice said the investigation should be revealed and then Jpap reveals it and look who it is.

Still I think it is legit. Nothing to be gained by lying about it.

Purely coincidental. I had already PMed Lab with my choice before I even responded in the thread. When Ice typed that up I had just received her response.

I don't expect everyone to believe me 100% but no matter what came up I was going to reveal it. The only way to know for sure is for me to be shot. I obviously don't want that to happen for the sole purpose of clearing me and Ice. Shoot for scum.

 

[Chill]

Ok Kash obviously I have an over riding desire to shoot you and move on but I like to think I'm a little more reasonable than that. When I look at this and the next long post as well - Wiz's "if you pull enough posts you can make anyone look scummy" comes to mind. Was that your plan here?

You make a big deal out of my question about who had a good track record of fooling Wiz but insert a lot of other stuff in between before getting to the fact that I revised my question some 15 minutes later. Why seperate the two ideas? Was it less convincing with the revision too close to the original question? Do you really believe I would float out an idea and then do a complete 360 before it even had a chance to work?

As to the middle stuff you say I might be taking advantage of Ice's posts but none of your pulled posts show me following Ice in fact they read Ice agrees and Ice followed. Not the meticilious logic I'd expect from you. Did you believe what you were posting or were you just building a case on an innocent?

Nevermind the whole OMGUS component. I say I would shoot you and you say you would shoot me?

Overall you seem very much off your game to me. Can you offer up anything here to change my mind?

Reviewing Chill's early comments/questions to decide whether there're scummy motives behind his posts, a case could also be made that Ice acted as Chill's helper... or vice versa. It's just hard to tell whether they are working together or if Chill took advantage of Ice's posts to suit his team's agenda.



Ice being ever-helpful, agrees with Chill in response to Chill's post and immediately distances himself from the (proposed) scum team's reason for selecting Wizard. Could be working together... still hoping to draw attention to me as Wizard's target without it leading back to either of them.

Wizard knows that I know better than anyone that he almost didn't play due to time limits and why. I almost didn't sign up either for the same reason. I just didn't say so in the sign up thread since Wizard already had. We've both missed several games because other stuff in real life has limited the free time we have to play.



Here, Ice quoted FF saying the mafia may have picked Wizard at random.... a reasonable guess IMO from someone like FF who has good insight about players sometimes but is not real savvy on strategy. While Chill already quoted FF to make him look possibly scummy, Ice followed that by actually placing FF on the scum team for us.

As posting continued, Rich said he'd pick the best player first.



Perhaps, this wasn't the direction Ice and/or Chill were hoping it would go when Chill proposed his original question... "Anyone have a good track record of fooling him?"



Ice gave reason to negate speculation that could lead back to himself. He also turned the post against Rich.





Later in thread, FF got grilled over going to bed early. I don't believe anyone paid attention to his preceding post to that telling Ice to have a valid reason when he accuses someone.







Chill had been watching the thread and either didn't like the way it started going in different directions or he'd given his previous question further thought... or something. So he said he misunderstood something... (what?)... then Chill changed his question.

This is quite interesting if you reread those pages. Why would Chill change that question based on what had been posted?

-- FF guessing it was random and Ice reacting by saying FF was on the scum team? No, that doesn't relate to Chill's question at all...

-- Rich telling Ice he got lucky as the gunslinger in a previous game? That wouldn't be it since it has nothing to do with who has fooled Wizard before (Chill's question). Wizard wasn't playing yet when the first gunslinger game ran.

-- Between posts #24/25 where Chill asked who has fooled Wizard before.... and Post #36 where he changed that question to who Wizard has a good track record of reading.... what else had posted besides what I quoted already? Nothing other than Jspigs (post #29) disagreeing with FF that the gunslinger pick might be random. As that doesn't relate to Chill's original question, that wouldn't have prompted Chill to change the question either.



Here Chill expands the question to include anyone who may consider a Wizard threat to them.



And here, after not getting the desired reaction from others Chill decided to question the gunslinger instead.... prompting Wizard to suggest likely targets he may shoot. Truly... this dialogue should be the other way around.



As this post shows, Chill was successful at directing Wizard's gaze where he wanted it to go. It's up to us (and Wizard) now to decide whether Chill was sincerely asking questions to help reveal who the scum are for Wizard's benefit (and the town's best interest)... or was Chill leading Wizard around by the nose instead?

 

[IceH2O]

I'm going to base a list off a post I made and reaction. Below is the post.Notice I said most of us would choose a top player then explained who I would and wouldn't choose. The following players either made a case based on the hypothetical parts or completely said I was trying to say I wouldn't have picked Wiz so I can't be scum when in fact I said I would choose him per him being a top player.

I actually think most all of us would choose a top player as 1st slinger for the reasons already said. I think Wiz was chosen for his announced lack of time.

I wouldn't choose a a player that makes themselves look scummy. I also wouldn't choose players that are hard to read for the slinger because I'd want the slinger to have to wonder about them.
I might choose a new player as slinger just because its almost a 100% chance they would miss just because they don't yet know what they are looking for.

Since FF pulled Ice's post above, I read it again. I disagree with Ice's comments, as I feel he is making some real big assumptions, possibly erroneous assumptions. We shouldn't be doing that.

First, why should we assume a noob would naturally take out another noob? ... much less systematically wipe out all the noobs, one after the other in some kind of hapless chain reaction?

Seems to me newer players are generally more distrustful or possibly intimidated by some or all of the vets. In a standard game, noobs often start by avoiding vets and those they feel are "scary" in the thread because they feel they don't have enough experience/skill yet to hold their own against them in a barrage of posting that may follow.... and if they don't say something just right, that could get them lynched.

In this game, however, I expect that the noobs are equally likely to aim at a vet they suspect or a fellow noob because they can shoot anyone they really suspect without having to worry the town may go after them for it.

Not only do I feel Ice's initial premise is incorrect (noobs more likely to shoot noobs than a vet), using that as his basis to then carry this line of thought where he did (none of the noobs are likely to shoot a vet) seems questionable to me.

For Ice to also state we only get 5 misses, then proceed to list the 5 noobs by name... I guess, implies the only folks he expects are going to miss would be them. Kind of a rotten thing to say, if you ask me. Besides which, I don't see a basis for that point of view either. Vets are just as likely as noobs are to take a bad shot in this game, as well, since we're more likely to read too much into things.

Even if that is your view, Ice... aren't you also saying you think the noobs more likely innocent? If so, what's THAT based on? Lab Rat told us the assignments were made randomly. And if their ill-advised shots at each other are misses, then again...they're not scum, are they? They would also not be scum if they get the gun handed to them. Do you really believe the only scum will be found among vet players (yourself excluded of course)? If not, isn't that what you intended to imply?

I'm glad FF pulled this quote from Ice because I believe it warranted a second read today. I didn't question it as much last night when I saw it the first time. Having taken another look now, perhaps I am reading this incorrectly.... in which case, I'd like Ice to explain better what he meant by this. I'm a bit puzzled about what Ice was trying to accomplish with this particular post.

After all of that posting it still turns into an I could be wrong though.

I have a few questions about this post Ice after looking back at some of your earlier comments.
I don't get why you are mentioning why you "might" put the gun in the hands of a new player when that is exactly what did not happen. The only reason I could see you even mentioning something like that would be to essentially say "the gun is in a vet's hand so I can't be scum" type thing. Also what does the part about I wouldn't choose players that are hard to read for the slinger mean? The slinger wouldn't have to wonder about them because they are "them". What do you mean by wonder about them?

It doesn't make sense to me to have so many contradictions in your posts about why you "hypothetically" might choose a new player when it has no bearing on the game unless you are just trying to make yourself look like you can't be scum. You give all the hypothetical new player pick reasons you go and say "I actually think most all of us would choose a top player as 1st slinger for the reasons already said."

Why bring up all that "hypothetical" when it really has no bearing on what has actually happened in this game?

I would shoot Ice because he keeps talking about who he would have picked when that does not change anything or help the town. It also makes it seem like he is trying to draw suspicion away from himself by saying he would not have chosen the wizard. .

I'd shoot Ice, cause he's being too helpful and at the same time posting about who he would have chosen as slinger (aka, not wiz) so he can't be evil.
Also, if he turns out to be innocent, i would die and a great player would become the slinger.

This one is actually double interesting.

It has the false accusation of me saying I wouldn't choose Wiz but look at the blue line.
FF are you saying if I'm shot I'd shoot you and you'd die?

Correct. It was mostly random but with a little gut feel too.

Here Jpig has a gut feeling on LG

I forgot to mention that I no longer suspect her because I have now realized I had no reason to suspect her in the first place.

Here he says he had no reason to suspect her... but what about the gut?



Don't really know how or if Kash fits in. I'll need to look back and see who responds to who and who mentions who but I only had time to pull some content posts. I have to get up early so I'll get them tomorrow.

Still very wary of those not posting or giving limited info also.

 

[Lab_Rat]

Piranha86 and Salt4Sam have been prodded...again. A little early for Salt4Sam, but I'm heading to bed soon and didn't want to neglect doing that.

 

[IceH2O]

I just received my investigation result and Ice is innocent.

I was totally off on him but at least now I can trust what he says and remove him from my list.

I have some posts to respond to still...got distracted by Lab's PM.

Well I'm glad I was investigated and I know its correct but unfortunately it doesn't clear Jpap as mafia would be stupid to name me mafia get me shot and out themselves.

 

[Chill]

Chill heads over to the general store to buy some yeast and copper line

[YT]xvaEJzoaYZk[/YT]

 

[rich311k]

This is silly, no one has any thoughts but the same 5 people?

I would say LG. Kash at this point.

 

[Chill]

Yes, Pap...I didn't mean to and didn't even think about it until I was re-reading things and it hit me several players call you JP. ....sorry


Thanks for adding some input. Yes, I realize it is the weekend..but at the same time we all knew the game would be starting.
Anyway, yes the Rich thing seemed very odd to me also. I realize he was being nice to me...but at the same time, well I'm sorry but the only ones I can see wanting me to have the gun would be the mafia.


Really...you sure?
I will say that yes, she made some very good points and I tend to lean more to agreeing with her. Chill is someone that is hard for me to grasp at times, but I will say many of his posts have made me uneasy.

Can you clarify this a little for me G? You ask if they're sure but you seem to agree?