Mafia 92: Night of the living Mafia... the play

[Kashta]

So what are your thoughts on Kash rehashing this zombie stuff?

I don't think she was rehashing as much as pointing out logic she doesn't agree with. Her posts did give me cause to want to look a little more at a few things. I could be wrong I have never been able to catch her when she was scum.

You got me curious. What "few things," Wizard? And what did you decide when you went back to check out my posts? I don't remember seeing you mention it.

 

[Kashta]

Thank you for posting this, Dawg. It helped resolve some concerns I was having about you the way other posts in between seemed to miss what I was getting at.

I understand that you are pointing out the odds of hitting scum vs. hitting a townie. The odds should be better of hitting a townie than it is to hit scum but only scum and JB know that for sure. I was pointing out that it would take less hits to take out scum than it would townies because there are fewer scum. Yes you would have to know who the scum were and hopefully that would be based on evidence from the game.


I do see that but it's not always the case. Many times it comes down to one person vs. the other for a lynch and if the town makes the wrong decision they will hopefully follow up with a zombie hit to change things around. Or as a zombie they could put the scum over the top with a hit the other way. It is all up to the individual zombie and to me Kash was pointing out how it would be easier for the zombies to help the scum win. I was pointing out the opposite.


I agree and think there is more to her questioning than what she implies.

That post shows that you weren't taking only a narrow view of the various possibilities.

As for that last line, I was trying to figure out why you'd want the town to possibly assume it would be better for them as future zombies to target the mafia by making it sound like it'd be an easier win for them. It really wasn't that simple. And you're shrewd enough to be able to see multiple outcomes were possible. I thought maybe you were being slippery or something. If the lynched innocents turned zombie went after who they individually though were scum... they'd be more likely to miss and actually help the mafia by hitting innocents.

 

[Kashta]

-I do not believe that mafia turn into zombies.


-That fact slipped my mind at the time of the post but you are absolutely right. My mistake.


-If it would help the town then I have no problem posting it but keep in mind this was formed before we knew FF was innocent.

FF calls Ice out for "Watching" three people and then calls him out for being "Agressive". This I saw as distancing early on and then FF places his vote on Ice to distance them even further. But then when FF comes under fire from Mad, he switches his vote off of Ice to Mad (keeping in mind this was where Ice's vote has been). Then I assume that someone in the scum den told him not to jump around like that and that he made a mistake so he pulled it off (if I am correct) 2 or 3 posts later. Based on this I saw those three as scum in the following rank:

FF, Ice, Mad

Now that my main suspect has been proven innocent, I really have noting to go on. The interaction between Ice and Mad could either be mafia distancing (but it was a little much) or a mafia vs. townie argument. I don't know if they are both mafia but I could see one... I'm just not sure which one...

This post has been quoted before, but it stood out to me as well. Scum quite often will include a fellow scummate in their suspect list. Knowing now that both FF and Mad were townies, that leaves Ice as a possible teammate to Razz that got named for distancing purposes, just in case.

Ice's early vote against Mad based on a questionable "case" he made, his pushing that case as far as he did (hoping others would join him?), and his lukewarm "distant 3rd" suspect status for Razz is enough for me to include Ice as a reasonable suspect.

The only "reason" I could find that might exonerate Ice somewhat is that he left his lone vote on Mad even after the mafia made the decision to take Mad out with their hit. Maybe that didn't concern Ice... he managed to explain his vote away by simply saying he got it wrong. And not many questions were raised about that. I'm still going to consider him a suspect at this point.

 

[Kashta]

fair enough, my wording is poor. My main concern with Tank's vote is the fact that it is random and on an off player, yes to me it looks like an attempt to toss a vote to protect themself from having to make a game effecting decision. Yes I'm aware that Labby brought up the "train" bit, but AGAIN my concern with Tanks vote had nothing to do with on whom the vote was placed but the fact that it was a wasted vote.

As to Kash's vote on 2H, yes it appears tossed but I'd need to read further into their interaction and posts to make a solid opinion.

I'd like to know what conclusion you reached on this.

 

[Kashta]

JM again...

Noods, i have to agree with pappy on this one. zombies do not have to use their hit. it's day one. there isnt much evidence to go on for anyone in this game right now.


Kash, why do you need to know who other people are voting for? you are definitely not acting like yourself.

what are your thoughts on other issues, such as the one surrounding Razz or D-day?


D-Day, I wouldnt talk about weak cases if i were you...

I had to place an early vote while half the players in the game hadn't indicated who they suspected or who they were going to vote. I had very little to go on, no time to review more, no chance to change it later on, and so on. Often, you can detect at least some sense of connections between players by analyzing the votes... even early ones... by looking at who's voting with and against whom, who's ignoring or avoiding certain controversies or players. Also by considering who makes a great fuss over one suspect, yet places their vote against someone else based on a weaker argument. That's where what they say differs from what they do.... often an early scum-tell.

So I mentioned that when I voted. Wasn't overjoyed to place an actual vote yet myself because I wasn't sure yet who my best suspect was. Just didn't have any other choice without UDing. And at the time, there were only a few scattered votes placed so I couldn't tell much from that at all. Lack of input is frustrating to an analytical person like me.

 

[Kashta]

Right now Mad and Doom are my top 2. Razz a distant 3rd because it could be a slip but Mad is voting him(?) and I don't think as close as the voting is that it would be distancing.

I'm getting an Ice/Razz team vibe from this. You seem awfully soft on razz here, almost apologetic ("but mad is voting him").

You're funny... If it weren't for you and Mad trying to make something out of nothing and dragging it till it bleeds my vote would probably be on Razz as its something I'd take a Day 1 vote chance on. I won't vote with a suspect, same way I wouldn't vote JM if I thought the case against him was good because you are on him.

I'm dragging it until it bleeds? That's funny. I woke up to your vote this morning based on some really crap logic. Then FF hops on, so I decide to pick the logic apart. What was I thinking?

It would have to be better then the one I thought I had, then I'd have to hope that my suspects were trying to distance. Further along in the game a suspect on a suspect doesn't matter as much because I've had time to track out my thoughts better.
But the case on Razz is a possible slip, and like I said its possible but I like my case on Mad/Doom better especially since it seems to be getting a lot more play then i thought it would generate from the 2 of them.

There's voting with your suspects, and there's voting one of your suspects that your suspects also suspect. Subtle difference, but real. Ice is very wishy washy in his post about razz, he doesn't end up really saying anything at all other than It could a slip but maybe not. Why post that? There's no reason for it except to make it seem like he's being hard on crime.

The second time I read these posts, I noticed I agreed with Doom. Also think they are onto something important. That makes what's quoted in my next post even more significant.

 

[Kashta]

Already suspecting JM and Ice both, and knowing Mad was innocent... this looks like JM decided to go after someone (Doom) who was effectively calling Ice out. JM trying his best to protect Ice.

So i need to get this in now before the storm show up...no telling what will happen with the power. This is going to be quick, but most of the explanation can be found in other posts.
I vote to lynch D-day

The way you tried to make up a case out of thin air against me didnt work. You dismissed it pretty quickly for other endeavors, like it never really happened. Throughout this whole process though, you've done nothing to help the town. You've just been throwing up dust the entire time.

I don't believe JM gave us his real reason for this vote.

 

[Kashta]

Considering all the bother DD has been making over typos/slips/mistakes.... this one is a real gem.

Kash, you say you printed the thread out to read it overnight to get a handle on it.... did you not see where it was kinda scummy to keep rehashing the points about the zombies and their hits? Too much focusing on something that was deliberated on long enough... scummy







more discussion of the zombie hits.... were you guys not satisfied with what was talked about yesterday... or are you trying to keep it in the air to hide from the real task of rooting out you mafia guys?



not sure what is bothering you about it.... can you explain?


Now Noods goes back to the zombie points...



Actually, it's this point that makes me a little more suspicious of Noods... Evidently Noods, as you post your typo fixes after some of your posts, you are actually pointing o8ut what could be typo's of other folks. Why such a highlight on suspecting folks with typos?

I am still catching up from getting home from work... but these were my thoughts up to this point.... I didn't want to lose my thoughts halfway through

That's just bizarre, DD. I've said nothing about printing anything at all.

My printer's been out of ink for months and we're not even planning to replace the cartridge anytime soon. And I certainly couldn't print anything like this stuff at work. In mafia games, I also typically work from a notepad type application and a spreadsheet.... never printed material.

So I'm very curious about this. Someone apparently DID tell you they were going to print pages from the game thread. And it wasn't me.... so who is it that you got that confused with?

....... someone you've been chatting with in your scumden, perhaps?

 

[Kashta]

Holy smokes, I don't ever remember a Day 1 being so busy before!!



I dunno.... ever since Noods played the typo's are scum card, I guess I am a bit more alert to the "slips" posts. Could this tie Noods and Labby together, I dunno... but it does look odd.


the bolded point cracked me up


hmmm.... this kinda caught my attention too...


I will bet being scum so there is no need...



sorry, had to work late.... had no clue that day 1 would be so much to read.... 9 pages!!

ok, I didn't really see TOO much that I could find as scummy but let me put it out in a list from what I can pick off the top of my head. These are in no particular order.

Kash - continues to hash and rehash (rehash Kash) on the whole Zombie thing. We have been done with that for a while now... way before her posts about it. This is from Kash, once who pays a great deal of attention to detail.... or what I am used to her paying.

Noods - Typo patrol.... yet feels compelled to proofread her posts and puts out that she sees she has posted something wrong... is it supposed to appear as you are an innocent townie and you have noticed your mistake (or slip) before anyone else?

JM - I think with the whole FF thing and he appearing to be in alliance to FF, he feels like he has escaped being looked at as mafia. He continues to point at how unhelpful everyone else is in his path.... I was going to vote Kash off the top of my head but I feel compelled to vote JM...

CNote, Mad, Ice, Razz.... I can't get a read either way from each because as they are pointed at, they have understandable excuses. Are they scummy excuses? I cannot tell yet.

I vote to lynch JM

At this point in time, DD expended more effort trying to make me and Noods appear like scum. Yet she votes JM instead..... because she feels compelled to do it.

What DD says doesn't match what she does.

Honestly, DD, you should've just gone ahead and voted either me or Noods to be more consistent with what you'd been saying in your posts.

DD also made sure to mention C-Note, Mad, Ice, and Razz... each of whom had been talked about a lot in the thread. Yet, DD really had nothing to say about them. So why mention their names at all? Beats me.

 

[jbradt]

Vote count:

Ice (1): DDay
DD (1): Wiz
JM (1): Kash

Nightfall at 10p eastern tonight.